AZ_Native

I know there are several topics on broadheads, but I wanted to start one specific to the Rage 3-blade broadheads. I have lost an elk and a very nice white tail within two months of each other, and both seem to have the same issue. Minimal penetration and lack of damage. The latest incident was on a nice white tail last weekend at 63 years. Very solid blood trail, but I noticed the arrow stick sticking out of him as he bolted off. Followed the blood trail a couple hundred yards for a couple hours until it got dark. Went out again first light and found the trail where we left off. Followed it for another 200 yards and then it ended. We looked for hours on end and no deer. Very frustrating considering it was such a good white tail. The bull elk was a 47 yard shot. Big heavy body and I put it right behind the shoulder. We never found any blood and never found the elk. I watch the arrow sticking out the side of him as well as be ran off. This just seems unacceptable to me. Are these just preventing penetration due to bad mechanical issues? Even if I hit some bone on the deer it still should have gone thru. We found the arrow from him and it appeared to only get 3" at most, if even that. And that shot was not too far forward. I'm shooting 280 fps. I'm thinking it's time for a newer bow and to throw those Rage broadheads in the garbage.

I ran across a Stevens Model 200 in 7mm-08 that a friend was selling and picked it up for $125 a while ago. The thing was shooting 139 gr and 140 gr bullets HORRIBLY... Then I did a little research and found out they put barrels on those things with 11.5 twist! Dumb dumb dumb of Savage.... I was just going to load some 120 gr Sierra Game Kings, but then I realized I could easily re-barrel the gun myself. Not sure why I didn't think of that before. Then it also dawned on me that I didn't have to necessarily re-barrel it in 7mm. Why not re-barrel in 6.5x284 since it's the same bolt face diameter? It's a long action gun so there would not be any issue with the longer COALs that the 6.5 runs. Can anyone thing of any reason why I couldn't re-barrel that gun to a 6.5x284? Not sure which barrel I would go with, but would obviously have to get a go no-go gauges, barrel wrench. The plan would be to get a Boyd's stock, glass bed it and make sure the barrel is 100% floated. Would either replace the trigger or work on it a little. I think I would rather have that 6.5 versus shooting 140 grainers out of the 7mm-08. Thoughts?

Perfect statement PRDATR. It's gotta be one of the perfect do-all rounds out there.

Nice story and nice buck! Any Coues deer is a good deer!

I had never heard that Red. I believe I bought the two packs that I have owned at Bass Pro. It's not like counterfeit could not have found their way in to Bass Pro, but I want to hope that is not the case. They sure do fly straight. That was the reason I knocked it on the elk in November. I felt comfortable with the fixed blades at 45 yards, but I started my stalk at 140. I didn't know if I was going to get closer than 60 yards on the elk. It just happened really quick and it ended up being 47 yards. I did the same thing on the deer last week. Had both broadheads in the quiver and talked myself in to using the Rage even though I got to him bedded down and ranged him at 47 yards. The deer got up when I wasn't watching and ended up giving me a 63 yards shot. I think it's time for me to go to a brand new bow and get the 320+ fps, easier pull and hold, and tune it to fixed blades. I think it will result in more accurate shots. I still have my Javi hunt so I'll carry both broadheads, but that's only because Javelina are the only animals I've seen the Rage work on.

Just came across this thread and love all the pictures of the dogs! I just found a litter in November and decided to pick up this little male. Little is kind'a misleading, but I am pretty sure he will be every bit the 90 lbs that his dad is. He may not come from championship show dog lines, but he has his papers and his dad is a natural hunter and apparently required very little training to retrieve dove and point on quail. "Drake" will be 4 months old next week and he is really starting to develop a great personality. He gets lots of play time with my brother's chocolate lab and TONS of playtime with my neighbor's Weimer. I work from home so this little guy is now getting good at sitting upstairs with me in the office while I get some work done. He seems pretty birdy already and has love the ducks and quail that get brought home so far. After his next set of shots in a week I'll be able to take him out to the river and get him used to the kayak, but he sure loves to sit on it in the garage. I'll get him used to the shotgun and will be ready to start with the training. Right now he's great at retrieving his toys and he is great on basic commands. Of course, we are also focusing on making him a great family dog and couch potato for those non-hunting days. This is the first dog I've raised from a pup. The first 4 weeks were definitely hard, but now it's getting great! Looking forward to duck and quail hunting with this little guy next season! BTW, I'm just going to look at the silver lining and say that picture of him in my dishwasher is simply him excelling at his dish washing training!

Interesting Gila Monster. I am discounting my Javelina that I killed with them because they are such small creatures. I am just baffled with the deer. At least on the elk I can consider that I shot too far forward and struck bone. The previous year I had a gut shot and got the liver on a spike. Arrow had gone all the way thru. He went 50 yards and just laid down and died 40 min later. I was able to watch him the whole time on flatter terrain. I have heard multiple times now that the Rages have an issue opening properly. Even some of the reservations and some of the guides won't allow them now. Too many wounded animals never recovered. Part of the discussion as been that fixed blades will penetrate better on bone, or glancing off bones. Mechanicals can some how have a tendency to fail to expand correctly when encountering bone and therefor not penetrate much in some instances. Well, those are some of the reasons I hear. Either way, I'm extremely bummed to loose two animals in as many months. Granted the elk was just a basic 5x5, but he was heavy bodied. That would have been an enormous amount of meat. The deer was an absolute trophy though. Tons of meat and a nice rack (I'm not really a rack hunter though). I just don't want to lose another animal. I'm no sharp shooter with the bow, but I'm also not too shabby. I have good groups at 45 and 60 yards. Have I mentioned it's a bummer to lose two animals in two months!?!?

I think the magazine will be ok length wise, but I'd have to check. I'm thinking a long-loaded 6.5x284 is not really much longer than a 7mm-08? I've got a Berger reloading book so I will have to go see what the COALs happen to say. I'm really split on this now since I have a Remington Sendero II in 7mm Mag and I kind of want to keep redundancy in bullets (if that makes sense). The Sierra 120 grainer should actually be a really nice bullet on Coues or even Mule Deer out to 400-500 yards. I'm betting very light recoil and should be pretty accurate. I think it would make a great gun to have in the closet to reload really cheap, fun to shoot, and more important... Be a great deer or Javelina gun if I can get my nephews in to it. They are getting to be about the age where I could take them. Then I keep thinking I would be much better off building a "proper" 6.5 off a 700 action, Krieger barrel, good gunsmith, blue printed, etc... I could still bed the stock myself, but that round is such a nice long range plinking round I'm leaning toward having a professional build the action and barrel. Regardless, I could always re-barrel the Stevens to a 1-9 twist to be about to shoot the higher BC 140 grainers.

Yeah, the Xmark triggers on the Sendero are not that great. You might luck out and get one that can be adjusted down to a reasonable pull, but mine sure can't. I'll be replacing mine soon.

I would highly recommend the Vortex Viper PST in 6-24x50 (FFP or SFP). The 50 gathers more light than the 44mm objective. You'll get a little brighter image and a little more shooting time at dusk/dawn. I also own a Vortex Viper HS. There is a NOTICEABLE difference in quality. However, the HS is a pretty dang nice scope for $400 or so. It shoots lights out on my 308. Unfortunately, you get limited with elevation adjustment. The Viper HS-T is the same glass as the PST, but the reticle is not etched like the PST. I called Vortex and asked them about it. Very informative conversation. Basically, the HS-T is the same exact quality, just different reticle construction and no illuminated reticle. Also, you don't need to get FFP if you don't need it. That being said, you can get in to a Viper HS-T SFP for a very reasonable price and well below what a PST FFP will cost. You will likely be more happy having the higher power for those days you want to reach out longer. Also, I am a huge fan of the open turrets now and their zero stop to get me back to zero.

I agree with averagejoe, but I would spend $600 on the Remington with the heavier barrel and aluminum bedded stock and put good money in glass. Don't skimp on the quality of the scope you put on the rifle. The Vortex Viper PST is the first "quality" scope I have put on a rifle and to me that is the lowest grade I would go in the future. It sure makes shooting long distance easier to do. If money is not a factor, do what joe said. Cheap remington 700 and get a good match barrel. Gunsmith services will run about $500 to install the barrel and blue print your action to the barrel. It cost you, but it's worth it.

Here is the Sendero: This is the Sendero and 308 together for reference. I had not put the Viper PST on yet. Like I said, the LRH will shoot just as well, but I sure do like how the Sendero looks.

AverageJoe made a great comment. If it sucks to shoot (big recoil) you will hate shooting it and likely never shoot it very well. I have a stock Remington 700 in 300 WM and I absolutely HATE to shoot that gun. It's punishing. I am going to use that action and send it to the gunsmith to have a custom 300 WM built off it with heavy barrel, muzzle brake, etc... The 7mm has always been touted as about the biggest magnum "most" people can comfortably shoot and I would have to agree with that. Granted my Sendero 7mm have a heavy barrel and a bit heavier stock I can shoot that thing all day long and never get tired or flinch. Look up ballistics charts as 218buck is spot on. If you are going to shoot 600-1,000 you'll want enough energy at those ranges to drop the particular animal you are going for. Since I am fond of HSM's Trophy Gold ammo and it shoots so well out of my guns, here is a link to some of their ballistics data: http://thehuntingshack.com/?page_id=13 You will see various rounds, their velocities and energy at different distances.

HNTNGuy. I'm new to this site (can't believe I have never registered for it!) but certainly not new to hunting and shooting. Like the other post said, you will get lots of opinions. I own a Remington 700 Sendero II in 7mm RM and a Remington 700 long range hunter in 308. Personally, I think the 308 shouldn't be used on large elk past about 500 yards, but that is simply my opinion. But the 308 is a great round. I reload for all my rifles and get great results. I have a load for the 308 that shoots .2" with 168 grain Bergers. But, you won't be loading... No worries! HSM Trophy Gold ammo use the 168 grain Bergers and I regularly shoot .25" to .5" groups at 100 yards. That's not too shabby! I like the heavier barrel and the aluminum bedded stalk. It's about as close as you will get to a professional bedding job without actually having one. I finally found some HSM Trophy Gold that use the 168 grain Bergers for the 7mm at Sportsmans and snagged two boxes. I have not shot them yet, but hoping they perform like the HSM does in the 308. I have not found my "perfect load" yet, but I have got some handloads with the 168 Bergers to shoot .5". I would imagine I will get that gun down to .2 or less once I bed the action and put a better trigger in and find the right load and bullet seat. Now, to answer your question... 7mm is one of the best "all around" hunting rifles you can own. A legitimate 1,000 rifle for deer and elk. I have no problem ringing steel at 850 yards and I am just starting with that rifle. One of the most efficient bullets there is. Also, you can find factory ammo EVERYWHERE, which is extremely important since you won't be reloading. Same goes for the 308. The recoil is pretty tame IMHO, particularly for a rifle that can lob rounds accurately and consistently out to 1,000 yards. I spent $1,200 for my Sendero, but to be honest, the $600 long range hunter (blued) with the heavy barrel and aluminum bed will shoot just as well. Something just made me go with the stainless. Put good glass on it and the 7mm will let you plink at 1,000 yards or hunt at pretty dang long distances as well. Any of the other large magnums can be a little punishing on recoil, which is why I love the 7 for hunting. If budget is not a consideration go with the Sendero. It's a dang fine looking gun. I put a Vortext Viper PST 6-24x50 on it and haven't looked back. Good luck with the search!