AZ_Native

The place up north shut down this year. I haven't had a bad experience at DPR. People have to remember that they are pen raised birds, They don't fly or flush like wild birds do. If you miss the bird and you go chase it again it won't fly as well as it did on the first flush, heck, they may not fly at all. I can see how an handler can get frustrated when their dogs work hard to find birds and the shooter can't hit a dang thing. I'm happy to hear that your experience wasn't bad. I agree. If you miss the first chance, then it just makes things harder. My buddy and I are both good shots. Out of the 20 there was only one bird that really got away, and we were able to find him and whack him anyways. For those that are going to take kids I would be very clear with DPR what "your" expectation is for what a successful hunt looks like (being realistic of what this really is). The customer should be able to express that and have it met. There were a couple times the first shot was missed and the backup shot got it. That certainly helps! I am looking forward to getting out there this year and testing my dog out. I am holding high hopes he does well!!!

Can't argue with that point. If I recall I went between the ribs on the entry and exit. Even though it was a pencil in and out an animal won't go too far when you double lung it. Mine only went 5 yards in this case. I would rather make a perfect shot at 500 yards with an accurate bullet and track it 50 yards then waste a lot of meat. Interesting you have seen the other bullets do the same when it's only hide. Most of my animals have been arrow kills so I am learning more about the bullet dynamics these days.

I wasn't sure if they had actually started reintroduction. I think they should keep those areas closed for some time after the planting. I also think they should email me the exact location once they open it up....

Zeke, interesting comments. I have not searched pencil holes for Bergers, but sound like I am not the only case. No doubt, those bullets fly like a lazer when you figure out the handload, and I can certainly attest to that. I trust their BC numbers more than any other bullet. Not sure if the thin jacket promotes variable expansion responses that people see. Mine was definitely pencil in, pencil out. However, it dropped within 5 yards. Any solid double lung is going to drop an animal within a reasonable distance. Red Rabbit. Unfortunately, it was my last day to hunt. My buddy had to leave the day earlier, so I had to do all the hard work alone and didn't have a chance to take pictures of the vitals. If I recall, I only remember seeing pencil holes thru the lungs. Wish I would have taken the time to take those pictures. I can't complain about the fact the deer was 5 yards from the shot, but this thread is about the other factors obviously. I guess I am still perplexed that they advertise so heavily on the massive wound channel and exit, but I just didn't see that in this case. WHT MTNMAN, that goes back to why I don't know that I want to use Bergers for hunting now. Sounds like too many pencil hole results and the other results are more like softball exits. Lots of bullets out there that keep their weight instead of exploding. Not sure what I will get now using my Bergers. I don't trust the Nosler ABLR for many reasons, but I am starting to trust the BC numbers I see from Hornady's ELD-X's. Interesting what Zeke mentioned about using the ELD-M's for hunting. I emailed Hornady and told them they are missing the boat with the 6.5CM. The 147 gr far outmatches the 143 ELD-X in performance. They need to produce that 147 in the X variation for hunting. Given Zeke's mention, maybe I should just use the -M for hunting though... Zeke, I disagree with you 100% on the meat. The Coues front should meat I have had is incredible. Some of it was ground, but the steaks were every bit as tender and tasty as any other part of the animal, including the tenderloin! But, maybe I just shoot prime deer....

DSE, that is part of the reason why I question sticking with Berger bullets for hunting. I don't want to waste potential meat. One of their claims is essentially the bullet "exploding" inside and creating a massive wound channel. It also potentially equates to a massive exit wound and meat waste. DCSHORTHAIRS, I have seen all their videos. That video certainly doesn't replicate what I saw on my Coues. I'm not discrediting the effectiveness of the Berger bullets, but I am certainly questioning my overall desire to use them as a hunting bullet moving forward. Lack of expansion in my case, conversely, massive expansion in their "typical case" that leads to more meat loss than I would prefer. This kill worked out well for me, but I guess my point of this post is to get a multitude of in-field experience and feedback. At this point, I am not sure what to expect from a Berger bullet at any range based on their claims/videos and my personal experience. I'm interested in hearing more feedback from the group!

Interesting feedback. Is the consensus that high velocity closer range shots may result in little or no expansion on smaller "big" game animals? Like I said, mine went 5 yards and dropped, so far be it from me to say this didn't result in a near instant kill. Point being the expansion. I too an now looking at the ELD-X only because the boxed Hornady ammo seems to shoot sub half inch out of my new Ruger RPR in 6.5 CM. I have the 140 Bergers and the hyped Nosler 142's to play with as well as the 143 ELD-X's. I see the Creedmoor becoming my deer gun, my 7mm becoming my "loan to a friend on a hunt" gun, and my 30 Nosler my big game round. Either way, I am curious to see other results. The 162 gr ELD-X seem to shoot really well out of my stock Sendero. That might become a good round for me in the future.... IF I CAN GET DRAWN!!!! dang 2017 deer draw results...... I think right now I am pretty safe out to 500 yards to make a consistent kill shot. Will be working with a few of my rifles to expand that range a little bit further. I'd like to have a solid gun to 600 yards, maybe 650. Anything beyond that I will probably work my way in to a better shot position, at least until I think my handloads and gun are solid enough for those long-butt 700+ yards shots. Who knows, I might get drawn for the side of a barn soon, so I'd better be ready!!!

Just happen to be doing some reloading today and realized I have not brought this topic up to a forum. Last Fall I got my Coues buck with a rifle tag. It was an average size buck that I took at 310 yards. The rifle is a Remington 700 Long Range Hunter (it was a little earlier model prior to calling it that but same dang thing...). Shooting 168 Berger VLD's out of it at about 2,798 fps on handloads. The ballistics calculator puts the bullet at 2,369 fps and 2,093 ft/lbs at that distance. The rifle has pretty much been a lazer for me and the bullet hit exactly where the cross hairs were placed. (not that 300 yards is a difficult shot...) I have always heard the Berger VLD's enter a little bit, then expand violently, giving a quick kill. This bullet appeared to have literally no expansion that I could see. There was a 308 caliber hole going in and a 308 caliber hole on the exit wound. I was by myself so didn't have time to get shots of the insides and actual wound channel. Granted, the deer dropped within 5 yards of where I hit him I am just curious as to the potential "non-expansion" of the bullet. That concerns me a little about using the bullet on larger game at different distances. I'll try to post of the entry and exit wounds later, but thought some folks on here might have some experiences to share on the same topic. It was a double lung, so obviously the deer had a very limited life span after I hit it, but if it were a less than desirable shot and I don't get that wound channel, I don't want to watch an animal walk off and never recover it.

I've heard lot's of people say the San Fran Peaks hold them, but that is a TON of land to cover to get on top of them. Up in the Kaibab as well. That would be a fun trip to chase them and some Chukar, but it's a heck of a drive from the Phoenix area. I read they were looking to re-introduce the grouse in several different locations in AZ. That would be awesome if they did that. I am sure a lot of people would have a good time chasing them if there were more populations and pockets of them in our forests.

Interesting comments Vowell. I kind of wondered if the pup flushed some on the ground if they would hold in a tree. Sounds like I'll try to take him out there and work him in the area I saw the birds. I'll definitely post pictures if I succeed in getting something. Brademan, I am somewhere in the state of Arizona... Specifically, I am between the CA and NM borders of Arizona and I am South of the Utah/AZ border. I'd give you GPS coordinates, but I'll be darned if my GPS quite working right when I started typing this post... As for your breeding ideas, I think there is a forum somewhere on pigeon sex that might be applicable!!!

Everyone tell me your secret Blue Grouse hunting spot in 3....2.....1...... Ok, so that might be a bit of a stretch for anyone to tell me. I might stand a better chance of snow in downtown Chandler this week! Last year, I saw a Blue Grouse on one of the reservations while driving to go fish. I know there are a few small pockets of these birds in AZ, usually accompanied by long, steep, grueling hikes to get to them. Well, I just came across a group of them a couple of weeks ago. Apparently called a "lek". Fits right in to the timing of the tail end of the year where they form their leks. At first, I thought they were turkey poults, but only later realized that was not what I was looking at. As well, I have a spot where I regularly see band tailed pigeons. So, I am super pumped to bag each one of these birds later this summer and plan on spending the effort to do it. I know the grouse have a 1-2 acre range so I am holding high hopes to bag at least one when it opens. Same thing with the band tails. Obviously, I would never divulge my super dooper top secret locations, nor would I expect anyone else. But, anyone else here have some luck getting some of these birds? I would be stoked with just one of each but hoping to get a few when I am out. I am just excited I have some solid locations to succeed with this endeavor. Post up some pic's if you have them! A side question to this, would it make it more difficult to bring along a Chocolate Lab for the Grouse? I'm not to sure if they will stay in the tree with a dog running below or if they would have a tendency to run off on the ground. My pup keeps a pretty consistent 20-30 yards perimeter and works in arcs in front of me. (not sure where or how he learned this, he just developed it naturally and has never had an interest in going beyond that). Would not be feasible to take the pup going after the pigeons. I have observed them enough while hunting other critters and the best method for them seems to be finding the location you know they frequent and still hunting them.

I went to this place earlier this year. My experience wasn't altogether bad. I took a coworker in from out of town and we each got 5 chukar and 5 pheasant. I would not call the bird handler a conversationalist, bu any stretch. The dog handler was pretty nice. I set my expectations appropriately. It's a canned hunt. Some birds may fly off and get away. We had two birds jump fields but we were ale to take the time to get them. Her dogs did pretty good, and yes, she had to "kick" a couple up. That was my ethical dilemma of this hunt. But, like I said, I knew where to set my expectations. Later in the season they run specials with leftover birds, so we each got 10 birds pretty cheap. I have a less than two year old Chocolate Lab that has turned out to be 100% naturally gifted at hunting. I plan on taking him out early season to see if he picks up on this type of hunting as he has only been a duck and dove pup so far. He seems to have the nose for it, so this is where I see this scenario working out to "place" the birds nearby and let him have some success finding them, then see if it translates to him developing the nose for it. Sucks to hear someone have such a horrible story at this place. I am not defending them, but even though my experience wasn't terrible (I would call it average at best) it's a bummer to hear someone paid that much money and get a raw deal/experience. But, I can easily see how this place could make a bad hunt for someone else. I have heard a lot of great things about the place up North and definitely plan on getting up there with the dog. I'll hit the place in Coolidge just for a quicker road trip to get my pup some experience.

I use the Backwoods Original Jerky Seasoning (Bass Pro, Sportsmans, etc...). Make that recipe with top round, which tends to have the lowest fat. You don't want any fat in there if you can help it. Trim it as lean as possible. I generally do 5-6 lbs at a time, as that is what will fit in my dehydrator. I have a slicer and cut my meat to about 1/4". I marinate at least 24 hours, but being that thin I don't know that it's required. I get requests to mass produce this constantly. Not a single person has had it that hasn't told me they would pay good money for it (and I have certainly considered doing that on the side...). Oh, I should admit that I may use the Backwoods recipe to a "T" per the instructions, but I also add another 5 or 6 ingredients to it. Of course, I can't tell you what those may be! I will only tell you that mine has a nice kick and warmth to it. Even so, if all you did was use the bag's recipe, the jerky will turn out fantastic. I just used Backwood's summer sausage bag and made 21 lbs. They really do have a good thing going. Got a lot of great compliments on that, and it was just their recipe, nothing else added. Use their bag for jerky and you won't be disappointed. Most of all, have fun and experiment with your recipes and find what works best for your taste.

That is the upside of shooting a spike, just post-rut. The meat has been awesome. I will pick up the rest of it from the butcher, hopefully next week. I just cooked my sister and brother-in-law from DE some steaks last night, and they wanted more!

Yeah, I understand it's the bow, but I would say it's easier to shoot than my 2003 Hoyt Ultratec I had. I like the idea of having the much faster bow too. I am using the Slick Trick 1" broadhead. I'd have to double check, but I believe I have the 100 grains on there. Shooting the slimmer arrows and all in weight is 360 grains. Coming off the bow at 326 fps it's a pretty flat shooter and carries great kinetic energy.

Come on folks, you all know you go out and spend all that time to harvest a nice buck or bull so you can get a hold of those dangling bull berries or buck berries. It's ok to admit it... My favorite show on TV is Steven Rinella's MeatEater. I take as much of the animal I can, I keep the skull, keep the cape, etc... I am a bit of a foodie, so none of this is really a stretch for me, but I think it adds to the experience to attempt to use and eat as much of the animal as possible. This year, I decided to keep the, um, "dangling parts" from my Coues and my bull elk. Anyone have any good recipes for these? I know Steven Rinella has a book out with some recipes on the buck berries, but I am curious if anyone here has a good prep method and recipe. I also took the livers as well. Cooked up my turkey liver earlier this summer, and that was pretty good. Now I have tons of Coues liver and bull elk liver... Throw out some ideas please! Thanks!!!