hawkeye

That is my point exactly. we sit on our butt and cry and wine but don't do a thing. I just contacted the Governor about this subject I will also be in Flagstaff for the next meeting. (Which by the way will be a waist of time) Have you been to any of those meetings. And here we go again. The commision has every body so scared to make waves lets scare them with the anti hunting groups. Well let me tell you I have drawn a total of 3 times in the last 10 years. Why should I be concerned about the anti's. It looks like I have already lost. Go ahead and stick your head in the sand and be afraid of the anti hunting groups, I'm already afraid of the Arizona Game and Fish Commision. hawkeye

thats what they want you to believe. I'll tell you what when you have the amount of free money they have coming in things will never change. Let me ask you a question. Do you actualy think that the bonus point system is a fair system? The only reason they stopped the every 3 year application for elk is that they figured a way to squeeze more money out of us. And also with the bonus point system no one can trace any descrepancy in the draw. After the draw a few years ago my son had 5 elk points but when he recieved his pink slip it showed only 1. When I called about it I was told that it was just a print error and that the points were there before the draw.(sure!). Also the only way I got his points back is because I keep all records and had to show them to them. I had no way to show that they screwed him. Since the commision started getting millions from the lottery our liscense fees still keep going up. And the residence of Arizona keep paying the bill. Don't think I am anti AZGFD I am just sick of the way things have been going. Colorado has a preference point system. With this system you will eventually get a tag if you keep putting in. Not in Arizona someone could actually go his whole life without an elk tag.

I hate to say it, but, as long as the G&F are making about one and a half million dollars off of the non-refunded apps. There will not be any kind of change in respect for a fair draw system. If anyone believes that the AZGFD isn't motivated by greed and not by game management then I don't know where you have been for the last 20 years. There is no way they are going to give up this windfall. I am not sure how to do it, but I sure would like to start a petition to have the Arizona Game and Fish Commisioner become an elected official and not an appointed position by the Governor. If they were elected then they would have to at least listen to the public and there biologists, (which at the present time they don't). They have there meetings and listen with closed ears, then do as they please. Also if you read the judges report he said all Arizona had to do is to put up some kind of defense to there position for him to consider and they didn't. What does that tell you about what happened. The Commisioner secretly likes what happened in respect that the more non-resident applications mean more money in the coffer. It is time for all of us hunters to become involved. Call the Governors office and let your feelings be known, as she is the only one who has any power over the AZGFD. Also remember at election time to go out and vote. If all of us hunters could stand together we would have some political clout.

I have lived in Arizona all of my life, which is 50 years. One thing I can tell you is that it seems the G&F is only worried about money. Not game management. Other states use a preference point system. Which means the people with the most points get the permits. So you know going in that it will take a certain number of years before you will get drawn. Colorado is that way. And it works pretty well. In Arizona My son is 25 and has only been deer hunting 3 times in his life. When he was young I couldn't wait untill he was old enough to hunt, but when he was, he only got to go a couple of times. You may think he was putting in for premium units but thats not true. He was putting in for 24A and surrounding area. Some people seem to get drawn most years and an unlucky few seem never to be drawn. The reason change will not be in the near future is that there is too much money to be made in the present system. The Game & Fish just this drawing recieved more than One Million, Three Hundred and Sixty Thousand Dollars in just non refunded application fees. (Now thats a pretty good business). The only way I can see any type of fair change happening in Arizona Game Management and hunting application reform is to take it out of the hands of the Governor and to Make the Game and Fish Commisioner an elected office. This way we will have some acountability. hawkeye

What a great season! Like a lot of you I was going to hold out for a big buck. Well I tried. On the 5th day I was hunting an area where I had seen a large buck. It was a brushy canyon and at 325 yards a flag flashed through the brush. I had time to set down my pack and sit down to get a rest on my knees. I chambered a round and looked through the scope and caught a glimps of a rack through the brush. When he came out into the open I had about 4 seconds to make up my mind, and with him going away from me, I could see his rack. Just before he went behind a juniper I fired. As I walked up to him I could see he wasn't the buck I was after but I'm not upset. I passed on a few bucks bigger than him but I had a great hunt and he sure tastes good. He is a 4X4 with a couple of broken points, and I made a pretty good shot through the neck at 325 yards. (I ranged back from where I had shot after I got over to him). I hunted this season with 3 other people, and all of us were succesfull. My brother-in-law got a 4X4 the same size as mine. His son-in-law killed a nice wide 3X3 with good mass, and my nephew held out until the second to last day and bagged a nice 5X4 that should score in the mid 90's. We had a great hunt and saw a lot of bucks. The future looks pretty good for some nice hunting.

Had a great weekend. After not seeing any bucks on friday, Sat. and Sunday were filled with hours of buck watching. I watched about 8 bucks over the weekend most were nice but two were about 95 to 100 point bucks. Most of the younger bucks I watched were sparring with each other and rubbing high in the junipers, while the two bigger bucks I saw were both tending single does. I even watched two does fighting. They were standing straight up on there hind legs just slapping the heck out of each other with there front hooves. The cliffs and rocks took there toll though, I am going to take today off and hit it hard again in the morning. GOOD LUCK TO EVERYONE! Dave

I hunted hard from day break and got back to the jeep at dusk. I saw 9 does. The snow was about 3 inches deep in the area I hunted and it was foggy on and off all morning. I didn't see any of the does untill the sun peeked through about 9 am. 3 of the does I saw was about 4:30 pm and were bedded in the open. I watched while a herd of pigs walked into them and spooked them. After they saw they were pigs they calmed down and started feeding down the ridge. I'll be up and ready to go again in the morning at 4:00 am I LOVE IT! The bucks have got to be there. They were sure hidding from me today. I think the early rut theory was just hopefull thinking. Dave

Jason I agree. It is about time. It is hard to find a bow on the market today with 65% let off. At least one that I like to shoot. My Mathews has a 65% setting and I have tried to shoot with it set at that. I am not as accurate as I am with the higher let off. There seems to be no valley. Thanks for the info. I hadn't heard Dave

Sorry! hope this happy trigger finger isn't a sign of things to come Dave

I did a lot of scouting this past week and I found a couple of nice bucks all by them selves. Usually this time of year I find the larger bucks hanging out with a smaller buck or two. Maybe they are starting to think about the rut, or maybe they were just loners. I did find one pretty nice buck with a doe, but they scented me and I didn't get to observe them very much. On another note I saw a mountain lion last friday but forgot to buy a tag (I have one now). Also I have been seeing a lot of cat sign everywhere I have been scouting. Do you think the cats are getting more plentifull or just a coincidence? Dave

I did a lot of scouting this past week and I found a couple of nice bucks all by them selves. Usually this time of year I find the larger bucks hanging out with a smaller buck or two. Maybe they are starting to think about the rut, or maybe they were just loners. I did find one pretty nice buck with a doe, but they scented me and I didn't get to observe them very much. On another note I saw a mountain lion last friday but forgot to buy a tag (I have one now). Also I have been seeing a lot of cat sign everywhere I have been scouting. Do you think the cats are getting more plentifull or just a coincidence? Dave

Thanks for the info. My son works in a sporting goods store in Mesa and I had him buy them for me. He just called and told me they sound pretty good. I hope they still work when he brings them to me on Thursday. Dave

I JUST ORDERED A PRIMOS DEER CALL THAT HAS A COUSE DEER SETTING. AND ALSO A WHITETAIL BLEAT THAT WORKS WHEN YOU TURN THE CAN OVER. I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY WILL WORK BUT I'LL TRY THEM ON MY 24A HUNT THIS WEEK. DAVE

Hey Chris, Being a muley hunter for about 30 years I am new to couse hunting. I have been hunting large mule deer in what people think is great couse deer areas. The larger mule deer bucks that get a lot of presure find that if they move to the more rugged and thicker areas they are mostly left alone. That is what lead me to hunting coues. I found that when glassing for the large mule deer I was seeing a lot of 100 point coues. I find that hunting in December for coues is a more enjoyable hunt because of the colder weather. Most mule deer hunts in Arizona take place when 90 plus temps. are common. Thanks for the New Mexico tip. I am looking for an out of state place to try. as for your question on coues antlers. I have found that things take place about the same as with the mule deer. I have found that when archery hunting both mule deer and coues deer in Aug. and Sept. are still in the velvet so I asume the antler cycle is about the same.