crotalus

Points well made, BASS and Benbrown. There is a reason why these animals belong in Africa and not North America. Benbrown, pretty much nailed it. There is so much involved with the transplanting of species that even in a "controlled environment" much will go wrong. Remember the monkey pox outbreak we had a couple of years ago. The vectors in this outbreak were "pets" who where supposed to stay in a controlled environment. Since we're talking fantasy, how 'bout Jurrasic Park's "controlled environment", that worked real well didn't it... Teach the Africans how to "properly" manage the mentioned species, add on genetic banking as done in some zoos here and put some very tight purse strings on the funds is a good start. I'm willing to bet not everyone on the contienent is heck bent on destroying their natural resources and bright enough to control the project. Heck we have enough problems managing/aiding our native species, inluding the human species, much less imports(that includes the illegal kind as well,Az4life and Josh ). "B" for effort, "F" for creativity... Ernest

ya, it's lemmings..... thanx for the clarification! Man, it's scary when a good mind goes to waste......to many years spent under the sun in the great out of doors......... LOL. Ernest

Well, I have to agree that this has been an interesting string. As I read all the postings I couldn't help but add one of my own. IMHO, Chris provides a very nice, all be it sometimes abrasive, balance. I admire his courage to stand up and yell "STOP" when he feels that the lemmings (previously posted as "lemurs"!) are headed over the cliff. Please don't misunderstand the analogy. I read his postings and am glad that there is an opposing and different view. Personal attacks by anyone don't help, thanx Ernesto for providing the Biblical insight. Forums are "discussion zones" not "agreement zones", in the end it is my hope that when we walk away from any forum we walk away better persons and better educated on the subject matter. Whether or not you agree with a particular view is not what matters but how much more educated on the subject you become is what's important. Finally, thanx to everyone who has provided great and different points of view. Remember abrasives are used to "polish" or prepare a surface not ruin it. I think we can all walk away better people now..... Ernest

Creed, I hunt 30B regularly and have seen the largest WT deer on the river banks or near there. As stated before there are some areas that are not open to hunting by rifle(according to the BLM: area south of the Charleston bridge all the way down to Herfford is closed to firearms). Key here is, "rifle", but everywhere else is open to archery from Mexico to St.David. Last I checked this is still the case, but check with the BLM first. One of the largest buck I have had the chance to shoot at was at the "River". Very large bodied 4 point brown/tan buck with great mass and not too bad of a 3 point as his buddy. The area is very thick with foilage, esp. catclaw and some alamo riparian veggie. Have found that the area around Tombstone and west to the "River" is good for WT also. Also, don't hunt alone in that region for obvious reasons....Anywho, best of luck to you and keep that info on the DL. Ernest

Az guide those are some nice poles. I do the exact same thing to mine except without the nice handle. What do you use for the "wrap"? Splinters are a problem if they are not preped right or at least wrapped. May have missed your note from above as to what ya use. "Crazyaboutcoues" can I make a suggestion? Make your staffs unique, burn some design on them or burn a nice picture of a coues on it. Otherwise why would anyone buy something they can get in their own backyard. Hook up a nice story to them about how Az hunters wouldn't be caught without one or some personal story on how it saved many a Az hunter from an unfortunate fall, how the Apches may have used them in past history, use real coues buck skin to wrap them, etc.... Use ya marketing skills. Wish you the best in your new venture. Ernest

Just another tidbit, the plant we are talking about is really the "Desert Spoon" or sotol, right? It's really not a "true" yucca but grows close to the ground about 3-4 ft in diameter with a long fiberous green leaf with curved "thorns" and a terminal spike(pole) smack-dab in the middle of the plant we like to harvest for the sticks. The tip of the pole is covered with hundreds of flowers and maybe even seed pods. It is usuualy found above the 3000 ft elevation. Unlike the true yucca pole that grows high above the ground and probably to far for most of us to reach.The spike is what we use to make the hiking sticks and can range from about 3 ft to over 10ft. The only thing I can add to Arizona Guide's advice on making the pole is to harvest them after the summer rains(late Sept-early Oct or Dec/Jan , hopefully they would have been pollinated by then) and do not use any that have bee holes or are obviously past their prime (usually gray and dried out). They flower/seed only once every few years and serve as a "host" to many of our desert critters, so they are rightfully protected. As for the legal part of collecting these poles....again they are protected(but not like the saguaros and the likes) so visit the state's Agriculture webpage section of Native Plants; pretty technical stuff so it would be easier to call your local Agriculure office and find out. Last thing we need is to have a bunch of hunters fined for harvesting to many sotol poles. Ernest

Yucca Poles are a God send. I've been using them for over fifteen years and my father has used them all his hunting life, he's 63 now and still hunting hard. The poles make great shock absorbers, stabilizers and snake sticks, not to mention great gifts. In the lower SE mountains of Az the poles serve their purpose well, I wouldn't be caught without one... old secret that is definately getting around. Ernest

After reading all the postings, I'm stuck by several points: 1) why was this allowed to get to this point. To have a decision like this so close to the actual tag notification date is, well...it just begs for an explaination from the G&F 2) why are there no postings from the "big name" outfitters/guides? Try looking at their websites, not one mention as of 900 pm 07/16/04. There are alot of $$$$$'s at stake I'm sure. Respecting the current postings of other guides of course, I'm still waiting to hear from the "big names". 3) one posting also mentioned how this is working in the hands of PETA and other eco-activists. This is an understatement for sure. They are quitely rejoicing as we devour ourselves. The enemy is not out of state hunters or even outfitters who are trying to make an "honest" living(keyword: honest). It is the anti-hunter who will rejoice at the thought of keeping us from hunting, even if it means making a deal with the devil. I enjoy hunting elk and deer perhaps that is why it effects us all, not just those to hunt CWD "only". If you can start on one species what will fall next? 4) Increased fees will mean only the "aristocrates" will get to hunt. I for one will not be able to afford the increased fees, even for my resident tags. I have a three year old son who loves the "Outdoor Channel" and watching the hunts. What a heart break it will be when he learns that hunting will belong to the 'kings and noble-men" of our age. 5) we have fallen asleep and despirately needed this wake-up call. The foundations of our great hunting privileges are eroding before our eyes and not one dang thing is being said about how we can really unite to defeat this enemy. Sure token responses are posted but lets "walk the walk if we are going to talk the talk". That includes we residents of this great state and out of state visitors. 6) Where are the voices of our advocacy groups? What is being said by such groups as RMEF, ADA, NAH, SCI etc........If you are a member of any of these groups you need to demand they take a stance one way other the other. Arizona is just the start, next stop Utah, New Mexico, Colorado, Wy.......... "History repeats itself" many say. Once hundreds of years ago only kings and noblemen hunted. The game "belonged" to them, the commoner dare not steal their quarry. It was the "sport of kings" because the commoner do not have the money to pay for such privilege. I for one refuse to let my son enjoy hunting on television only. History cannot be allowed to repeat itself here, ladies and gentlemen. I don't know exactly how we can do this yet, but start with your advocacy groups and legislature. Respecfully submitted, Ernest P.S. Ernesto thanx for the prayer, at this point we are going to need it.

Mark, the only thing I would add to Treestandman's great advice is watch where you place your hands also. Think about taking more water with you as well, one gallon per person per day is a bit little for me. Of course don't weigh yourself down with containers but keep them handy or at least stay close to your H2O supply. Good luck in finding some sheds. Ernest

Well, just to let everyone know just about how expensive and damaging a rattlesnake bit can be: 1) the average cost of antivenom is approximately $2,000 - $3,000 a vial 2) the average number of antivenom vials used per bite ~20 - 30 and it could be alot more depending on the serverity of the bite, really nasty bites can use 50 or more vials 3) the average cost of an ICU room stay doing your bite ~$10,000($1500/day times 5 days) and that's not counting the lab test, medications like IV's and antibiotics, as well as bandges, physical therapy you'll need post bite, etc. 4) we all know how expensive a doctor's visit is so just imagine the additional cost. Grand total of a nasty bite from a rattlesnake, oh some where's around $150,000 per bite and that's if everythng goes well, that is you don't have any complications that will require surgery or have a reaction to the treatment. Ouch! On the bright side, rattlesnakes are not out to kill every human they encounter so just leave them alone and they will return the favor. Ernest

Chris, I'm a toxicologist at a local(Tucson) hospital and have lectured on "venomous creatures of arizona". Rattlesnakes are my favorite reptiles and can give this bit of information. Peak activiy is between July, August and Sept., not surprisingly due to our "monsoon" pattern. These snakes can remain active from about April to October/November. I have heard of bites occuring as early as Feb, but this is extremely rare. Any "activity" in the cold months is incidental and probably just a snake sunning itself as compared to actively moving. I read Amanda's story and was absolutely amazed she walked away unharmed, lucky thing it was a cold snake; leave it to a biologist to give such a great story. Wow! made me cringe at thought of what could have happened. Anyway I concur with Amanda that we should be aware that reptiles are active during this time, so watch where you place your hands, sit down and step, esp. in rocky warm areas....

Aye KP, I hunted 30B November hunt and only saw a two point buck. Nice body small antlers. I had seen a nice three point earlier in the year and got second hand reports of super nice four pointer in the southern mule mountians. Other than the above mentioned two point (which i didn't take) I had no luck. Well here's to next year's hunt. As I visited the unit earlier in the year it sure was very dry. this probably had something to do with the low numbers of coues wtd i saw. the mule deer were rocking, they were all over the place and some very nice bucks to boot..... later Ernest

Josh, in reference to your Aug 3,03 posting. This wouldn't happen to have been in the Safford area where you saw this doe mount? I am aware of a hunter that shot an antlered doe in 30B who now resides in Safford(?). I also remember that the deer was photographed and report in the local rag( Bisbee Review). Ernest