40-year-AZ-hunter

Amanda, You wrote, "In fact Suzanne made a presentation to the ADA board last night" We've read that ADA was supposed to survey their members, but it seems the members have not seen that. Delay, delay! Pete told folks before the banquet that if they came back with this stuff he would not be happy. He has now written that it needs to be killed. What did the ADA board do following the presentation by Ms. Gilstrap? It's time to get off the fence! Bruce

Please, please, email your friend back and give him " the rest of the story ". A link to the Arizona Wildlife Federations statement would be a good place to start along with Robbie Woodhouse's writeup. Let me know if you need the links. I can't tell you how I feel about John Koleszar here on a public forum. In January he told us repeatedly that this bill was dead and asked us "isn't a man's word good for anything here". Well, I guess we now know. Thanks, Bruce

The Arizona Desert Bighorn Sheep Society has been quiet as a church mouse regarding HB 2072. It's time for the critter groups who are fence sitting to take a position. The ADBSS Board meeting is Mar. 14 (Wed), 7pm at El Zaribah Shrine 552 N. 40th St. Phoenix. They may need a little shove. Bruce

Thanks for that. Good for them. At least they will take a position as of Wed. night. I plan to be at the meeting to see how it goes. Now if the ADA would just get off the fence. Where are you Bonuspointjohn? Bruce

The Arizona Desert Bighorn Sheep Society has been quiet as a church mouse regarding HB 2072. It's time for the critter groups who are fence sitting to take a position. The ADBSS Board meeting is Mar. 14 (Wed), 7pm at El Zaribah Shrine 552 N. 40th St. Phoenix. They may need a little shove to get off the fence. Bruce

Just have to Google "Arizona HB 2072" and see that the first page of links is essentially all references to various facits of opposition to HB 2072. Hard for them to overcome that. In fact, I plan to print that page and mail it to my legislators tomorrow with just a short note that says the opposition is overwhelming despite what AZSFW may be telling them. Bruce

Bump. If anyone needs help finding their Reps and Senator, please send me a PM. I'll be glad to help. Bruce

Hope this link helps. If not, send me a PM, and I'll get you the specific info for you. http://forums.coueswhitetail.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31148 Thanks, Bruce

Two brand new members of the forum, SNORT and BIGJOHNSON123 recently posted their criticisms of members for their opposition to HB2072 in the thread "Need more green ones (good guys)....who will be next". I personally welcome them to the debate. Since they posted their objections in the thread designed to identify those who have come out publicly in opposition to HB2072, I have a well-meaning suggestion. You should start a new thread that lists those organizations and individuals who have come out in support of HB2072. As in the prior thread, it should identify people and organizations by their real names, not "screen" names (especially since you have made so much of using a keyboard to advance the opposition). I suggest that such a thread would give everyone a much better idea of just how broad the support for this issue is. Again, you have made reference to the small group opposition, how about letting us see the size of the support? Bruce Johnson Flagstaff

Sir, I just returned from the G&F Commission meeting this morning where this topic was discussed at length. I got up and spoke my piece as did others. Were you there and did you speak? If not, I'm not sure you have any right to tell others how to conduct their affairs. If you send me a PM with your phone number, I'll be happy to discuss it with you, but I bet you will not do that. If I'm wrong, I'll be happy to correct the record. Bruce Johnson

This will really shine a spotlight on John K. and Pete C. We should see what they really stand for - special interests or the regular hunting community. Mr. Koleszar repeated over and over when this thing first blew up that "it is dead". He even referred to how good a man's word is. On Jan 13, 2012 he wrote; "Evidently a man's word is not worth much here. For those conspiracy theorists, the black helicopter squads, and .... the paranoid..The bill will not be back. Nuff said." http://forums.coueswhitetail.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29766&st=300&p=289403entry289403 Maybe there really are black helicopters John. I guess we will see. You have been VERY silent since it came to light again. Bruce

I believe UNMACHT, JAMES is the President of AZSFWC

Sorry it will not format here as it was sent out in Word but, Here is the memo from Hamberlin: Memorandum To: Arizona Sportsmen and Conservation Organization Board of Directors FROM: Alan Hamberlin, Chairman AZSFW RE: Response to Organization Concerns about HB 2072 DATE: February 29, 2010 In our continuing effort to communicate with sportsmen and conservation organizations, we wanted to bring you up to date on the status of HB 2072. Earlier today we met with representatives from the Governor’s office and two of the five commissioners primarily to see if there is an opportunity for continuing dialogue on the bill. We agreed to continue to communicate with them as we progress to let them know what changes we are making to the bill. We appreciate the responses and feedback that we have received relative to the introduced version of the bill and our responses to those concerns are listed below. It is our desire to solicit any additional concerns you may have. We respectfully request that this memo be disseminated to all members of your respective Boards of Directors asking them to identify additional issues that they may have. We will seriously evaluate and respond to any legitimate concerns. There are at least four items that we agree to modify in response to concerns and issues that have been raised thus far as follows: 1. The original bill had no cap on administrative fees; we will cap those fees at 10% 2. While the original bill had a reporting requirement for the qualifying organization to adopt a Board resolution and submit it to the Arizona Game and Fish Department specifying the amount of proceeds received from the sale of tags from the auction and raffle and sold at the EXPO and Banquets and the costs associated with same and the monies paid for each of the six purposes listed in the bill and the cost of administration. We will add a new provision requiring an annual outside independent audit of the proceeds received from tag sales and the expenditure of those proceeds by a certified public accountant. 3. We have been asked to cap the number of tags that will be available as a result of the legislation in the future to 350 tags. We agree to cap the number of tags at 350. 4. Concern has been raised by some that none of the monies flow directly back to the Arizona Game and Fish Department (AZGFD). We are willing to negotiate with Game and Fish and are prepared to offer them up to 30% of the net proceeds to augment their hunter recruitment program if they support the legislation. Please communicate any additional concerns to Suzanne Gilstrap at 602-390-4518 or preferably communicate via email to suzanne@capitolconsultingaz.com .

The groups that have split with AZSFW and those that are still on the fence.

The President of the ADA, John Kolezar, repeatedly told us back in January that this bill was dead. For example on 13 January 2012 - 10:19 AM he wrote on this forum in the thread on HB2072 "Evidently a man's word is not worth much here. For those conspiracy theorists, the black helicopter squads, and .... the paranoid..The bill will not be back. Nuff said. You can now go on to other endeavors." He had not signed onto this site since Feb 22 as of this afternoon. I sent him a PM asking if the bill was now still "dead" as he assured us repeatedly and linked to this thread. Shortly thereafter according to his profile, he was signed onto this thread. As of now, I have not received any response to my PM nor has he posted here. I hope Mr. Kolezar is discussing the situation with Ms. Gilstrap and will enlighten us all about his current views and those of ADA. Bruce Johnson

Thanks for the heads up Larry! Everyone, PLEASE email your hunting buddies TODAY/NOW and make them aware of this development.

I'm sure many of you are on the email list for AZSFW. I received an email from them today (signed by Susanne Gilstrap) that explains their rationale for the legislation and asks for support. It talks in the present tense. Here is the last "summary" paragraph, "4.Summary Most of the tags (about 276 of the total) are existing draw tags with special rules giving sportsmen a second opportunity to get drawn separate and apart from the AZGFD draw. Only 54 tags would be reserved for auction, without which we could not raise the money necessary to accomplish the objectives specified in the legislation. In other words, we would be investing in 54 tags a year to help increase our wildlife herd numbers by several thousand. Or we can keep the status quo and continue to reduce the number of permits for sportsmen by approximately 2,000 a year. We respectfully ask for your support in this endeavor." Sure does not sound DEAD as BPJ said over and over when this thing blew up. Stay alert!

I guess I get confused becasue there are statements from AZSFW and AZSFWC and they aren't always the same. I understand they are different organizations with different goals, but aren't many of the players the same? Not only do they have many of the same players but start checking to see who is on the board of the different organizations that are listed as members of AZSFW. Many have called this an incestuous relationship for years. Members of the various organizations never get to vote for the boards or the president of the group, they are "appointed" by current board members. It grows more and more ingrained and isolated from the general hunting public.

I sent an email to AZSFW weeks ago asking exactly that question and said I would post the answer in the HB2072 thread. I'm still waiting for an answer from them. It's only one of many legitimate questions nobody seems to answer. I'm still hoping someone will tell us when the next ADA meeting is. They keep imploring us to attend. Please let us know when and where. Bruce

Chef, I'd like to consider attending the next meeting. I looked at the ADA web site and see that they are held on the third Tuesday of every month but no place is given. You seem to indicate the meeting is next week which would not be the 3rd Tuesday. The "Calendar of Events" does not list any future meetings. I'm not a member of ADA, but would like to consider attending. Could you or someone post the time and place of the next meeting? Thanks, Bruce

Mark, Thank you for your candid post and I respect your decision to make it a "one time post". I, and probably others, would still like someone, anyone, to say who provided such briefings. Clearly the person providing the briefings is being protected and that's a darn shame. People would not have been any more irate about HB2072 if Sandy Bahr or Stephanie Nichols Young were behind it. In fact, I would be less upset seeing it from them than from someone or some group that we thought were our allies. Trust is hard to restore once it is lost. Bruce

First and foremost, there was never a vote on the issue. There was never a member of the AZSFW at any of our recent meetings. If an item has not been voted on, it will not appear in the minutes. Just curious 40... do you belong to any organizations?... Have you ever worked a banquet?... Mr. Koleszar, Convenient that we will never know who from ADA knew about this stealth issue before it erupted on these forums. At least I guess we can surmise that the ADA did not back it (no vote) and you are speaking for yourself rather than as their president. As far as the personal questions go - yes I belong to organizations and no I have never worked a banquet. Would you like my tax return too? Needless to say, we have very different views on many issues. Bruce Johnson

Can we please see the minutes of the ADA Board meeting at which they were briefed on HB2072? Those minutes should reveal who was there from AzSFW and ADA. Amanda? BPJ?

Hellofa first post Ryan! Great!

In post 47 of this thread, BPJ says "There can be no way that the ADA will support the bill. It is history, so we move on. We pay dues to the AZSFWC... a different organization totally" http://forums.coueswhitetail.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30026&view=findpost&p=290385 In post 189 of the HB2072 thread Amanda says " The fundraising side group of AZSFW is the AZSFWC." http://forums.coueswhitetail.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29766&view=findpost&p=288877 Somehow this does not sound like a "different organization totally"!