40-year-AZ-hunter

Suzanne and Alan (and whoever Pete is) will really let the genie out of the bottle! Bruce

OK, I'm just an average Joe so I guess it's to be expected that I'm confused and don't understand, but if I believe AZSFW, since Peay started the Expo sale of tags in UT the game is doing so well they should not need this (wink, wink). Wasn't predator control part of their pitch for the tags there? What the heck is that in the article about declining deer herds? According to the stats from AZSFW, UT is a model of expanding herds. Seems someone is not quite telling the whole story. Oh, I forgot. Its just that I'm too stupid to understand. Bruce

+1 Bingo!

The Arizona State Legislature is a bicameral body with 30 members in the Senate and 60 members in the House of Representatives. Each district is served by one Senator and two House members. It is most effective to send a personal note to your own legislators. They want your vote. Written letters carry more weight than emails. They figure if you take the time to write and mail a letter, you really care. Any communication is better than none. If you know who your legislators are or know your district number follow this link for the House roster http://www.azleg.gov/MemberRoster.asp?Body=H&SortBy=2 and this link for the Senate roster http://www.azleg.gov/MemberRoster.asp?Body=S&SortBy=2 These rosters are sorted by district number and have email addresses as well as phone numbers. Once on the roster page, you can resort the lists by clicking on the column head. If you do not know your legislative district follow this link and fill in your address in the boxes in the lower left corner. http://2001.azredistricting.org/ In the upper left will be your legislative district (you do not want the congressional district). Go back to the links above with that district number to find your 2 representatives and your senator. If you want to send an email to all House members, you can copy and paste this list into the “to” field in your email program, but remember how you feel about SPAM. Dont be counterproductive! kyee@azleg.gov, vwilliams@azleg.gov, bwheeler@azleg.gov, jpweiers@azleg.gov, jweiers@azleg.gov, tvogt@azleg.gov, surie@azleg.gov, mugenti@azleg.gov, atovar@azleg.gov, atobin@azleg.gov, dstevens@azleg.gov, dsmith@azleg.gov, cseel@azleg.gov, msaldate@azleg.gov, brobson@azleg.gov, areeve@azleg.gov, tproud@azleg.gov, fpratt@azleg.gov, jpierce@azleg.gov, dpatterson@azleg.gov, lpancrazi@azleg.gov, jolson@azleg.gov, smontenegro@azleg.gov, rmiranda@azleg.gov, cmiranda@azleg.gov, emeyer@azleg.gov, jmesnard@azleg.gov, nmclain@azleg.gov, ddavis@azleg.gov, dlesko@azleg.gov, jkavanagh@azleg.gov, pjudd@azleg.gov, rjones@azleg.gov, khobbs@azleg.gov, mheinz@azleg.gov, jharper@azleg.gov, ahale@azleg.gov, rgray@azleg.gov, dgowan@azleg.gov, dgoodale@azleg.gov, sgonzales@azleg.gov, rgallego@azleg.gov, tforese@azleg.gov, jfillmore@azleg.gov, efarnsworth@azleg.gov, sfarley@azleg.gov, kfann@azleg.gov, jdial@azleg.gov, ccrandell@azleg.gov, scourt@azleg.gov, tchabin@azleg.gov, hcarter@azleg.gov, chcampbell@azleg.gov, jburges@azleg.gov, kbrophymcgee@azleg.gov, bbarton@azleg.gov, cash@azleg.gov, barredondo@azleg.gov, lalston@azleg.gov, eableser@azleg.gov For all Senators use this list, paboud@azleg.gov, sallen@azleg.gov, fantenori@azleg.gov, nbarto@azleg.gov, abiggs@azleg.gov, jburges@azleg.gov, ocajerobedford@azleg.gov, rcrandall@azleg.gov, adriggs@azleg.gov, sgallardo@azleg.gov, rgould@azleg.gov, lgray@azleg.gov, ggriffin@azleg.gov, jjackson@azleg.gov, lklein@azleg.gov, llandrum@azleg.gov, jlewis@azleg.gov, llopez@azleg.gov, dlujan@azleg.gov, jmccomish@azleg.gov, amelvin@azleg.gov, rmeza@azleg.gov, rmurphy@azleg.gov, jnelson@azleg.gov, spierce@azleg.gov, mreagan@azleg.gov, dschapira@azleg.gov, dshooter@azleg.gov, stevesmith@azleg.gov, syarbrough@azleg.gov

I'll take a stab at summarizing the list that Javi started this thread with and others can add to it or correct me if I have something wrong. In no particular order, Arizona Elk Society Arizona Game and Fish Commission Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation Arizona Wildlife Federation Yuma Valley Rod and Gun Club Arizona Bowhunters Association Coconino Sportsmen National Wild Turkey Federation - Az Arizona Desert Bighorn Sheep Society Bruce

TJ, I tried to send you a PM. With all due respect, this is a section of CWT entitled "Political Discussions - This forum is for discussion politics related to hunting" The latest post on HB2072 did not use any profanity, nor did it engage in any name calling. It was merely a call to action on the BIGGEST political issue to face hunters in years. To do as you suggest and "set aside this issue" is not up to those opposing the concept. As long as those proposing this for Arizona continue, there must be effective voices in opposition. Bruce Johnson

Jack, Arizona Elk Society, Hunt of a Lifetime, Yuma Valley Rod and Gun Club, Arizona Desert Bighorn Sheep Society and others have now stopped funding AZSFW. "trusted" - past tense! Bruce

Jack, Would you extend that representation to hunters and anglers who do not belong to one of the "critter" groups? Well less than 5% of hunting license holders belong to any organized group. Right now, everyone, whether they belong to a group or not has input into the G&F process via the open Commission meetings, many dept forums for hunt recommendations, the ballot box (Governor appoints Commissioners), public records laws that allow people to see everything G&F does, etc. Individuals, many of whom do much for wildlife and habitat, have no input into AZSFW or visibility into their processes. Their meetings are not announced on their own website. They do not publish minutes of their meetings. The do not provide anything resembling a "treasurers" report. Most groups do all the above. I personally asked AZSFW how an individual who did not donate $1000 could run for their Board. I was told that they can not. I asked for minutes of their meetings for the past 6 months and none have been forthcoming. I asked for any analysis they had done on the prices the tags they want would bring and how they would affect the prices of existing auction tags and received NOT even a reply. I sent a message asking how many individual, paying members (not members because they belong to an affiliate) AZSFW has. Again, no response. Not much "light of day" shines into their cave. How about AZSFW calling a meeting, open to all and announced well in advance on all the forums, to solicit input from ALL hunters, anglers, or just plain citizens? How about announcing that they are stopping all lobbying on "the concept" of HB 2072 at the legislature until they have achieved such "tranparency" and regained some trust. To me, it was AZSFW that caused the rift among sportsmen. It is their responsibility to take the lead in healing the wounds. Even with the outcry about the "process" of dropping HB 2072, there is NO transparency yet. And, just for the record, I oppose the whole concept behind HB 2072 - tags sold by a private organization at an expo to benefit that organization, but I would gladly enter into any process designed to openly explore all possibilities for solving the problems. Bruce

Great job Runningbird! THANKS for all the work! Bruce

Some folks are concerned that people who do not see eye-to-eye with them may get a seat at the new table being set. It's a threat to the existing order! Interestingly, had they not tried to "go a bridge too far" (HB 2072) there would have been no outcry for a change to the status quo that they controlled. Reap what ye soe! That being said, I'm glad it's a meeting taking place under the auspices of AZ G&F so everyone can see what is happening in the light of day provided by open meeting laws and subject to public records requests (as probably made by Mr. Cimellaro). Things done by AZSFW are not subject to any such visibility. For instance, I've asked Ms Gilstrap repeatedly for the minutes of AZSFW and AZSFWC meetings. They have no obligation to answer to us. Just one more reason not to trust such an organization with tags and funds and authority. Yep, Pete - I'll be there on the 22nd too! Bruce

Amanda, You wrote, "In fact Suzanne made a presentation to the ADA board last night" We've read that ADA was supposed to survey their members, but it seems the members have not seen that. Delay, delay! Pete told folks before the banquet that if they came back with this stuff he would not be happy. He has now written that it needs to be killed. What did the ADA board do following the presentation by Ms. Gilstrap? It's time to get off the fence! Bruce

Please, please, email your friend back and give him " the rest of the story ". A link to the Arizona Wildlife Federations statement would be a good place to start along with Robbie Woodhouse's writeup. Let me know if you need the links. I can't tell you how I feel about John Koleszar here on a public forum. In January he told us repeatedly that this bill was dead and asked us "isn't a man's word good for anything here". Well, I guess we now know. Thanks, Bruce

The Arizona Desert Bighorn Sheep Society has been quiet as a church mouse regarding HB 2072. It's time for the critter groups who are fence sitting to take a position. The ADBSS Board meeting is Mar. 14 (Wed), 7pm at El Zaribah Shrine 552 N. 40th St. Phoenix. They may need a little shove. Bruce

Thanks for that. Good for them. At least they will take a position as of Wed. night. I plan to be at the meeting to see how it goes. Now if the ADA would just get off the fence. Where are you Bonuspointjohn? Bruce

The Arizona Desert Bighorn Sheep Society has been quiet as a church mouse regarding HB 2072. It's time for the critter groups who are fence sitting to take a position. The ADBSS Board meeting is Mar. 14 (Wed), 7pm at El Zaribah Shrine 552 N. 40th St. Phoenix. They may need a little shove to get off the fence. Bruce

Just have to Google "Arizona HB 2072" and see that the first page of links is essentially all references to various facits of opposition to HB 2072. Hard for them to overcome that. In fact, I plan to print that page and mail it to my legislators tomorrow with just a short note that says the opposition is overwhelming despite what AZSFW may be telling them. Bruce

Bump. If anyone needs help finding their Reps and Senator, please send me a PM. I'll be glad to help. Bruce

Hope this link helps. If not, send me a PM, and I'll get you the specific info for you. http://forums.coueswhitetail.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31148 Thanks, Bruce

Two brand new members of the forum, SNORT and BIGJOHNSON123 recently posted their criticisms of members for their opposition to HB2072 in the thread "Need more green ones (good guys)....who will be next". I personally welcome them to the debate. Since they posted their objections in the thread designed to identify those who have come out publicly in opposition to HB2072, I have a well-meaning suggestion. You should start a new thread that lists those organizations and individuals who have come out in support of HB2072. As in the prior thread, it should identify people and organizations by their real names, not "screen" names (especially since you have made so much of using a keyboard to advance the opposition). I suggest that such a thread would give everyone a much better idea of just how broad the support for this issue is. Again, you have made reference to the small group opposition, how about letting us see the size of the support? Bruce Johnson Flagstaff

Sir, I just returned from the G&F Commission meeting this morning where this topic was discussed at length. I got up and spoke my piece as did others. Were you there and did you speak? If not, I'm not sure you have any right to tell others how to conduct their affairs. If you send me a PM with your phone number, I'll be happy to discuss it with you, but I bet you will not do that. If I'm wrong, I'll be happy to correct the record. Bruce Johnson

This will really shine a spotlight on John K. and Pete C. We should see what they really stand for - special interests or the regular hunting community. Mr. Koleszar repeated over and over when this thing first blew up that "it is dead". He even referred to how good a man's word is. On Jan 13, 2012 he wrote; "Evidently a man's word is not worth much here. For those conspiracy theorists, the black helicopter squads, and .... the paranoid..The bill will not be back. Nuff said." http://forums.coueswhitetail.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29766&st=300&p=289403entry289403 Maybe there really are black helicopters John. I guess we will see. You have been VERY silent since it came to light again. Bruce

I believe UNMACHT, JAMES is the President of AZSFWC

Sorry it will not format here as it was sent out in Word but, Here is the memo from Hamberlin: Memorandum To: Arizona Sportsmen and Conservation Organization Board of Directors FROM: Alan Hamberlin, Chairman AZSFW RE: Response to Organization Concerns about HB 2072 DATE: February 29, 2010 In our continuing effort to communicate with sportsmen and conservation organizations, we wanted to bring you up to date on the status of HB 2072. Earlier today we met with representatives from the Governor’s office and two of the five commissioners primarily to see if there is an opportunity for continuing dialogue on the bill. We agreed to continue to communicate with them as we progress to let them know what changes we are making to the bill. We appreciate the responses and feedback that we have received relative to the introduced version of the bill and our responses to those concerns are listed below. It is our desire to solicit any additional concerns you may have. We respectfully request that this memo be disseminated to all members of your respective Boards of Directors asking them to identify additional issues that they may have. We will seriously evaluate and respond to any legitimate concerns. There are at least four items that we agree to modify in response to concerns and issues that have been raised thus far as follows: 1. The original bill had no cap on administrative fees; we will cap those fees at 10% 2. While the original bill had a reporting requirement for the qualifying organization to adopt a Board resolution and submit it to the Arizona Game and Fish Department specifying the amount of proceeds received from the sale of tags from the auction and raffle and sold at the EXPO and Banquets and the costs associated with same and the monies paid for each of the six purposes listed in the bill and the cost of administration. We will add a new provision requiring an annual outside independent audit of the proceeds received from tag sales and the expenditure of those proceeds by a certified public accountant. 3. We have been asked to cap the number of tags that will be available as a result of the legislation in the future to 350 tags. We agree to cap the number of tags at 350. 4. Concern has been raised by some that none of the monies flow directly back to the Arizona Game and Fish Department (AZGFD). We are willing to negotiate with Game and Fish and are prepared to offer them up to 30% of the net proceeds to augment their hunter recruitment program if they support the legislation. Please communicate any additional concerns to Suzanne Gilstrap at 602-390-4518 or preferably communicate via email to suzanne@capitolconsultingaz.com .

The groups that have split with AZSFW and those that are still on the fence.

The President of the ADA, John Kolezar, repeatedly told us back in January that this bill was dead. For example on 13 January 2012 - 10:19 AM he wrote on this forum in the thread on HB2072 "Evidently a man's word is not worth much here. For those conspiracy theorists, the black helicopter squads, and .... the paranoid..The bill will not be back. Nuff said. You can now go on to other endeavors." He had not signed onto this site since Feb 22 as of this afternoon. I sent him a PM asking if the bill was now still "dead" as he assured us repeatedly and linked to this thread. Shortly thereafter according to his profile, he was signed onto this thread. As of now, I have not received any response to my PM nor has he posted here. I hope Mr. Kolezar is discussing the situation with Ms. Gilstrap and will enlighten us all about his current views and those of ADA. Bruce Johnson