Str8Shot

Well you were offering about $250 more than I would have .... and you are probably right about the $500 to get it looking good again... The only issue is that all the work you would have done would actually hurt the return value in the future ... especially if you paid $1000 or more...

Pre 64 or not the condition makes the price ... there is one thing to have Patina it is another to have excessive wear and abuse ... Check this http://www.gunsinternational.com/Wincheste...C6423F8CAC70960

You know with my kids I tell them not to start fights and try to solve disputes through communicating and reason .... But I also teach them if a fight is started by someone else then beat him/or her down and make an example of them... Sad part is sometimes bullies and people in power only listen to powerful opposition and if a few guns give pause to a person to really think about what he or she is doing then it is all good... Look at every tape of the town halls over the last few weeks in which American citizens have beeen treated like outsiders to the process ... these politicians do not realize their jobs are to represent the ones with such big voices, instead they show through their actions they are there to serve their own interest usually lined with greed ... Sad we live in a world where people feel they have no personal responsabilities and part of that is because of this system of politicians and lawmakers that we think represent our best intrest are always looking for ways to screw us ....

Lark ... It is summed up in R12-4-216 in the back of your regs .... Looks like with doctors orders stating at least 90 percent imparment in one arm you can obtain a permit for crossbow use during archery season

Nice Group of bucks and great pic of the toad standing out .... that looks like a spot in one of the archery draw units I seen similar activity at last year !!!

Awesome pic..... He looks a lil mean with the blood

Welcome to the Fun!!!!

So how long do the police Hold onto it before they surrender it back to you so you can mount it ? Just wondering

Nothing is nicer than being able to get a close stalk on some nice pronghorns like those and definetly better than heving them crash you on your Quad when they bust out right infront of you 11 strong because some plane spooks the Chit out of them and they decide to run you over ....

Yes the Cut out by Queen Valley was awesome for the years it could be used ... and it was ruined by the people dumping and shooting everything from bowling balls to cars and leaving them behind... Sad part is that we losse a Safe area to set up long range shots with very little traffic ... Wish they would just make it a range and give us another choice for target shooting... I say Sight in at an actual range first ... then fine tune it out in the feild on Coyotes and such... then state trust land is even an option

Just be careful where you choose to go.... if not the range.... Make Sure it is Forest land and not State Trust land (target sgooting is not allowed on state trust and use of state trust land is restricted if you do not have a permit or are actively hunting .... lots of areas I grew up shooting at and still getting used have had many leaving with tickets .... one of the closest places is going out off the road leading to rogers trough ... once east of the big creek bottom you are clear (your long range shooting my be limited and weekends tend to have lots of traffic) ... people shooting before the the creek or the old Witlow dam cut above Queen valley are getting nailed all the the time... your best bet is still Rio Salado (aka usery) ....

The Late November Hunt last year in the 36 units was very nice ... we were in 36b and arrived a few days early at that time we seen a couple of days of almost non stop rain but by opening morning the rain was gone and temperatures were at least 10 degrees cooler than when we arrived... Mornings were brisk through the hunt but not cold ... light gear was worn for most of the hunt with jackets coming off around 11 am and usually back on as the sun fell... In 36b the deer had been spread out from the earlier two hunts and we seen very few groups like we had the week prior to the first hunt... the drop in temps had deer moving pretty well throughout the day and we were glassing more bucks and does up and on the move than beded... Water was all over the unit so the tanks were not getting as much attention but still be hunted ... It will all depend on what Mother nature chooses to do ... I am hoping the 100's go away early this year but that is hopeful thinking cause I will be down there in Oct. Good Luck !!!! Chris

Well .. I can tell you I had some misinformation when it comes to the game and fish department this year on the left over tags ... I will sum it up # 1--- the left over process is not first come first serve ... it is the first ones grabbed out of pile #2 --- the reason it is not truely a first come first serve is because it is impossible to do itt hat way through the mail... they do it through the mail for the extra revenue from the out of state apps (5.5 x the $$$$) left overs are not subject to the non resident cap #3 --- the wording on when apps should be recieved needs changed I had this discussion with them and they seem to agree ... we will see if they take the advice #4 --- if you are told they are going to have multiple mail pick ups on the day apps start arriving this is not true All this comes after contacting game and fish the week before the 3rd...I Was told by the rep that any apps recieved in their mail box before monday were void and that post marks are looked at ... with that being said I decided to make the 150 mile round trip and go to their post office in athem only to see the G&F truck leaving as we went in at open... Now by legaL DEFINITION mail is recieved when it is put in the p.o. box not when it is picked up... So what I was told made sense and I did not question it until I called them again when leaving the post office and was told I misinformed.... then I was told they were going to do at least one more pick up that day ... not the case as I found out the next day ... my apps dropped off at 9:08 am 8 minutes after the opening of the post office would not be i the monday selection and were now at the bottom of a huge pile of tuesday apps.... with all this being said the ladies in the draw department were great ... they apologized for the miscommunications and let me know that I had been picked even though it was not on monday selections ... My suggestion was they re-word the leftover instructions stating no apps can be recieved before close of business on the friday before their pick up ... this would have saved alot of headache I am sure for many ... I was not worried about being selected but I was worried about being rejected if what the first guy told me was accurate... Now if you have questions on the actual apps and missing info they scan every app and save them... they will send a copy to you via e-mail.... if they have made a mistake there are rules to allow them to correct the error, these are stated in the regs and from what I have heard have been implemeted when they have been wrong... The one lesson I learned the most from all this is if you are transfered to the draw department make sure you are getting the draw department... they are all ladies in there and they seem to take alot of chit from hunters that were misinformed by guys in other departments who seem to say what tthey think not what they know ... or maybe it is what they think you want to hear... I hope they improve the left over selection and if they are that worried about the out of state revenue then set aside an additional 10 or 15 percent for out of state mail apps and start the first come first serve asit is stated by allowing us to walk into any g&f office and buy them ... then it truely can be first come first serve Chris

Just remember those rednecks to the east of us don't want to confuse their 4x4 whitetail with their trucks they drive through the mud it would just be too confusing.... Really I agree with everyone else being from AZ it is a 3x3 with eyegaurds and it most likely evolved because of the muley hunting that was way more prominent .... But on a side note I like knowing that a deer with 8 points may have 3 on one side and 5 on the other .... think it gives a better mental picture of what the rack would look like if someone was telling you about it ... unfortunatly not all eye guards are created = so when you get bruisers like that and people see them the Wow factor goes up some Chris

I have a question for everyone here on how long you have been in AZ and do you feel that spending so many years supporting a state and their game and fish should entitle you to some considerations when it comes to hunts... Fist off I was born and raised in this state , I have learned to love the land that az offers us from fishing the lakes to hunting the mountains... Our family has been in az from the early days... I have many friends that were also born in AZ and feel the same way as I when it comes to how the rules for angling and hunting our state have changed since we were kids and the lack of input that we the people who have been here our whole lives in the system... We want to change that !!! We want to See AZ hunters come together and make the years spent in AZ mean something beyond 3 or 4 years of being let down year after year when it comes to big game draws in az... The Idea we have thought about goes beyond the loyalty bonus point and changes it to a accumulated bonus point structure based on the years of arizona residency... Looking at the math we feel that 1 bonus point for every 15 years of AZ residency up to a max of 3 additional bonus points would be a way to show the true loyalty To those that have spent there Time supporting the AZ outdoors and will give common ground to all based on time vs how they have hunted, For example ( A person hunting archery deer for the last 15 years who now has to put in for a draw on prime archery hunts should not have to wait for 5 failed attempts to get 1 loyalty bonus point) ... We would like everyones insight into this .... How long you have been in AZ were you born here .... and ideas you think would make consideration for the years supporting your state and your game and fish ... Thanks Chris

Sorry if you misunderstood I thought I cleared it up on an earlier post I am talking hunters this is a hunters forum personally don't think that most that have not hunted for the last 30 or 40 years would not worry to much about getting into it now ....

Oh yeah and after you have your loyalty point don't make a mistake and mess up an app or deadline or it is lost for another 5 attempts

Red Rabbit If you read it right what this group discussed is based on years not actually been born in the state and the loyalty point is after 5 failed draw attempts per species ... SO my buddy that hunted exclusivly archery for 17 years and now has to put in for his favorite archery hunts has no Loyalty point ... how is that fair to him ?

The whole Point here is trying to find out how long people here have hunted AZ and how long they have been here in the state and if they were born here ... if your telling me that someone who has had a hunting/fishing licence in this state for 30 plus years and been let down countless times on big game draws year after year does not deserve some consideration from someone who has been here for 5 years that seems crazy ...I am not talking apples and oranges I am not talking to the non hunters here .... this is on an AZ hunters forum not just and AZ forum I am asking this question to hunters who may have an opinion that is all...

With the non Resident Cap that should not effect the $$$$ from out of state much if at all....

If you Draw archery Then the answer is no since your app was in the main draw .... If you have an archery over the counter then yes All is good ... choose your way ...

Well when it comes to camp foods in our crew we like Quick, Good , and filling ... I usually prepare Breakfast burritos at home then wrap in aluminum foil then vacum seal them .... a pan and steam rack is excellent for warming them in the morning at the same time your are perking your coffee... lunches are always pretty pack oriented ... pouched tuna or meats .. lots of granola bars and fruits... but for dinners it depends on how long and time of year but usual choices are Arrival night almost always fried chicken brought with from home or KFC want the extgra time setting up camp not cooking then Ribeye's (marinated at least 24 hours in montreal seasoning and Amber bach beer) with usually a side of Bush's beans , Then for great Beer Brawts the Amber Bach gets used again tried tons of different beers just found the amber to be the best ... one night is usually for some elk steaks, One night is usually Kielbasa or Hot links and Chili.... I like to Keep it Simple Stupid with minimal time needed to prepare or to clean up after when on hunts ... When Just camping everything goes from Dutchoven chicken to waiting on pit baked potatoes.... Chris

Just so you know .... If you contact any offic ethey will forward you to the proper lady ( I forgot her name) She will send you a scanned copy in pdf by e-mail.... I Know from experience since the last guy on our elk app forgot to put his lic number and it was overlooked by the guy who dropped it off... I was not a happy camper when I seen the scan and the missing number but no denying it when they have it right there

So what your saying is have the dept create a fund for each sportman using their ID with a balance that can only be used towards permits and tags .. So they can try to grow the money each calendar year .... In my opinion something like that would be fine if they decided to waive the application fees on each unsuccessful draw...

Your best Bet is to start with the load data sheets for the specific Bullet you choose you want to use ... the manufacturers web sites all pretty much give you the right data to start with ... I assist in loading with my dad who has been doing loads for 40 plus years and he prefers using Nosler in the the larger .30 cal loads ... but, when trying to get that perfect load for that gun it is alot of trial and error... if I find any specific load data in his papers I will pm you with them ... Good Luck Chris