Str8Shot

Just because my beliefs our not the same as yours and I express it ... it is not to belittle you nor anyone else .... and I know alot of old timers that have hunted this state for generations that feel the baiting thing is a joke too .... My opnion while it is mine is not only shared by me as yours is not just shared by you and as I sated many times if you do it good for you .... but I dopn't have to agree with it and those who don't agree with you do not need to patronized either .... So we will leave it at that

You will spin everything to your point of view and thats cool ... just kinda sad that so many hunters seem to think the only way they can hunt is to ambush conditioned prey ..... that they are feeding nutrients and food sources wich do not occure naturally in the area the deer are in ..... Maybe we need some Colby Coues ..... Game Hauler and desert bull can make sure they are corn fed and they can keep a trough of beer for them to drink and every once in a while if they can catch them give em a massage to get a nice even fat distribution just the way we do our colby beef ....

OK all YOU MASTER BAITERS are right .... Guess I need to change my ways and beliefs !!!!

I am still waiting to hear from one of you guys that are so pro baiting why do so many of you same guys bash and lessen the validity of a hunt in a High Fenced Ranch that has feeders food troughs and controlled water sources... Why Do so many seem to give them such a less than respectful Stigma... Think it would be interesting to know why is it any different ????

On another note I think the practice of creating BAIT HOLES is in a big part why we see alot of the BS over this is my spot or area to hunt and creates many of the issues that take place with hunters every year when everyone gets ready to drop the drawers and piss on the four corners surrounding the dinner tables they have been setting up the entire off season .... I understand the work they must go through to do it and in no way do I think keeping the dinner table ready and full til the deer or bulls last supper would be an easy task .... but it gives insight why so many get so territorial about their areas and almost makes sense on why they do it .... But it still does not make it right ...... I feel AZone and others point out these are the differences that divide us and manytimes makes hunting a little less fun .....

With a call you are not altering his natural behavior it is the games natural behaivor that MAY bring him in it is his same senses that will send him away when he feels something is not right .... The games natural behaivor makes it possible for a call or rattling to work at certain times(the sounds exist at those times in their range) .... but not everytime .... however when you put sweet corn out in the middle of the forest where it will never grow and especially with molasses mixed on it and keep refilling it or salt mineral licks in areas that they were non existant in nature .... the day in day out feeding and having that now made available will change the feeding habits and feeding patterns to one that is highly predictable .... With what percent do you know if .... when .... and where a buck or bull is going to come in with a call or rattling I gaurantee it is not a fraction as predictable as a recorded bait hole that will bring game in repeatedly .... you may have to wait days in that same spot but 9 out of 10 times those deer or elk will make it back unless something changes big such as a predator or a hunter already snuffing them out ..... with that call you are not forming a predictable pattern throughout an entire off season and setting up your blind to shoot em at your supper table..... Thanks for playing devils advocate and I see where you were going and agree it is very grey and as with AZone I agree on everyone is different but the diversity shows that there are many ways to hunt and whatever happens some may have to adapt.....

Jason I know I have watched old Bartta with his longbow.... and I am not trying to say that what I feel is right for everyone out there but In my definition of fairchase it comes to my beliefs that any thing that uses the deers own senses to modify his behavior to a predictable one by us i.e. using bait and attractants is not fair chase .... I do not agree that things we use to imrove ourself and improving our own odds such as scopes w/ turrets or mapping your yardage out to 1000 yards or masking our own sent takes away from it being fair chase ... I think, And this is just personally me that if I use anything to alter the GAMES NORMAL BEHAIVORS it lessens the experience of the hunt ... Like I said it is legal And I don't have issue for anyone who uses bait it is just not my thing and a change in the laws would not effect me or hurt me in any way .... I guess I still have that unaswered question though on why if so many feel so strongly on this and not having it taken away why do so many of the same guys shun Those who choose to do the same exact thing on those high fenced ranches .... I don't quiet get that ... Again on any game with a home range of only a couple miles on a 50+ square mile ranch the fences would be a non issue except on the extreme outer edges .... Just how I see it and not in no way taking away from what and how you do it

AZone I did say in my post that it had sarcasm, but I guess often that goes over some heads... I have no issue with you or anyone using Bait or Cams but trying to compare the use of Bait to the advancements in weapons such as bows and rifles and scopes is beyond ridiculous... The weapons used to Take game do not Lure them in ... They do not Modify the animals normal behaivors based on an outside influence to try to increase your odds by putting out a buffet table for them to come to every couple days... And if it is no big deal why do so many on this site and in general have an issue with the Huge High fenced Ranch Hunts ... Why does a 50+ Square mile ranch gain the stigma of less than hunting because they modify the animals behaivors to feed from troughs and water from specific sources ??? A deer with a home Range of 1-2 miles will almost never be effected by a fence that is 10 miles away and knowing that setting up your buffet tables in the middle of a herds Home range now becomes no diffrent ... Were DO we Draw the line .... I draw the Line at FAIR CHASE .... I will not hunt a high fenced ranch ... I will not use bait ... ANd if I ever chose to use a camera it would be used in a short span and without attractants to just give insight on what the deers NORMAL BEHAVIORS are at that time ... So don't Get Confused and Don't be So quick to Assume that someone who feels that FAIR CHASE is the purest form of hunting is ANTI.... If you choose to set up a buffet and sit up and shoot a deer at the dinner table you set then good for you... I have no problem with that ... but I feel it is very hard to compare it to a fair chase scenerio where you on the deers terms without influencing the most fundemental senses they have of eating .... Chris Just because something is legal does not make it the most ethical ...

Looks Good but I have kept staring at it trying to see the hidden picture and I just can't make it out ... It's not a sail boat is it???

Why do they call them Honey Holes ???? Seems like Salt and Corn seems to be what brings em in and keeps em coming back ... Does Honey actually work for deer or maybe that is just bear ... Just wondering Take away the trail cams... the bait... and cut the number of tags down to more realistic numbers and see what the herds look like in three years ... Everything those critters need is all ready out there and giving them treats to lure them to your honey hole is almost on the lines of the not so nice Icecream man luring children to his his honey hole ... Don't Think I would call that Hunting just my 2 cents with a small dose of sarcasm

From everything I have ever read Coues water in conjuction with feeding times usually at least twice a day in average to cold temps ... With the most of these times being early am and and in the PM .... But the Studies I have read from have also stated more sightings with mid day watering during warmer than seasonal temperatures .... I have also read unlike Mullies... Coues do depend more on water sources where as mule deer can achieve most their water needs through their browsing on the lands grasses and vegetation ... Just what I have read and much of what I have seen in the field seems to mesh

If A bull Jumps a fence to the other side(and they do alot in a few units) your right he is no longer a rez bull...lol... The only difference if you get that lucky in your timing, is the savings of about $21,879.50 on a 375" or larger bull

Well if you look in and listen to the Video you can narrow the unit down pretty easy ....that is to at least 2 units ....but I still hold to the unit I mentioned there is a reason that it looks like a certain type bull .... Maybe cause they only have to hop a fence line... and many do.... many do seen em tons of times and lots of monsters ......

If you know the carrier of the service they will locate the owner for you ... My dads 2 day old phone was lost in 24b and the person finding it turned it in to Verizon and they contacted him to pick it up working pefect .... The guy who found it could not use any of the numbers since the phone was dead... But there is a name attached to every phone so it should not be to hard ...

IA's dont buy health insurance now and wont buy in the future .... They go to the ER's and end up with state sponsered treatment .... The constitution does not allow us the luxury of denying them treatment no matter what is written in any upcoming Bill ... That is what the Lie heard around the world was about ... The Supreme court will not allow for the non treatment of IA's as they are there to uphold the constitution... So how ever they spin it Illeagles will get treatment under a Federal plan as they do now under state sponsered aid ... IA's are not going to buy healthcare and in my opinion any person in knowledge of a law being broken is an accomplice in that breach of the law and just playing stupid and making laws that do not require proof of citizenship means the US goverment is an accomplice of Law being Broke as are the idiots putting out caches of food and water to help these law breakers .... PLAUSABLE DENIABILTY???? or just Stupidity that is the question ... The funniest thing about it is the hardest working guy in the country enforcing the laws of immigration gets no respect we need more people like sherriff JOE sending these IA's home ... A citizen that crys unfare because of racial profiling when asked to show citizenship is only doing so cause they have the knowledege of people here illeagaly .... A proud Citizen of the US(no matter the race) would just Show the proof and thank the person for doing the JOB their taxes are paying for... just my 2 cents

When Clinton went into office there were increased sales in many types of guns and ammo and some small shortages but not to the level we have seen With Obama ..... And Obama alone is not the concern for most that have been running out and stocking up ... It is the Total democratic control of the House the Senate along side with him .... People realize that now there are many seasoned politicians still in both house and senate that were key in authoring Bills that had to do with 2nd amendment rights during the Clinton administration ... The only to go through the Process being the Brady Bill .... If I remember right the period of time between Clinton signing The Brady bill and when it went into law accounted for the largest increase in sales of guns and ammo during his administration.... Clinton is gone but many of the liberal opponents of 2nd amendment rights thatt remain in their seats of house and senate have been waiting for this type of control with this type of chief .... My bet is that if republicans held control of either house or senate the increases would have been much less and if they had control of both probably not at all... but the complete liberal shift is what drove these sales not Obama alone.... That is just my opinion though

Article that hit on AP just a brief overview of the Bullet Shortages going on .... The last quote at the End is great http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090923/ap_on_...s_ammo_shortage

NatureBoy... deer like all living things are going to adapt (just look at Red rabbits post with the desert bighorns chewing grass right close to concrete and asphalt) ... The thing I learned in my time in 32 is that the terrain and limited access are a much larger obsticle to hurdle than thinking of how dry it is .... looks can be Deceiving when it comes to water in many southern units including 32 .... Such as that River that runs north through the unit and often looks dry in long stretches .... Dig down 10 inches and see how dry it is ... The question with the drought in my opinion lies more on the vegetation that is available for feeding (coues like all white tail have to feed at at certain times to keep the biological process going)..... Tanks that rely on rain and runoff that are dry plus low vegetation most likely means fewer deer ..... Kinda sucks for road hunters but hey not many roads run to the best water sources.... that unit is bubbling with water even now, but you are going to have to walk more than a 1/4 mile from a road most likely to find it ....the other thing about those areas where the water bubbles from the ground is that a higher water table usually means more things growing those guys like to eat ...... Guess What I am trying to say is adapt ..... Find you an area with some Bubblers ( I hear thats what Yankees fans call water fountains) .... Look for those things green they like to eat and if in the area you have some good slopes littered with large areas of deep cat claws or ocotillio find a glassing spot and be patient .... At least thats what I would do

Do you have any pics .... and does the tank have the pump

Very Nice ....was it the power company who put in the food plot for them to feed on

Good Day to All the fellow CWT members getting juiced up for the upcoming hunts ... I have a question I hope Some locals in the Arivaca area may be able to help me with ... I am needing to find out if you know of any local Trailer storages with a resonable rate for my Dads 5th wheel... We will be up scouting and he is hoping to find a place to store it for a couple weeks down close to the hunting grounds ... We will be down on the weekend of the 10th to scout and back down for our hunt and to take it to the field in unit 36? around the 21st ... Any suggestions would help big time and hopefully help him save some $$$ on the gas it takes to haul it .... Thanks in Advance for any info Chris

What An Awesome Bull ..... Sure looks like 3C to me

From my experiences down south ... They all want to try to be illusive and unseen by people period... Especially the Mules ... But if they get desperate they will take the risks especially if in need for food and water ... most issues I have heard of deal with loss of food and water since they are on the move they are trying to keep it as light as possible and not going to spend alot of time in a camp if they even intrude... We secure Ice Chests and all food goes in locked Storage lockers .... We also leave nothing to small or light that may be desireable to some one on the trek... We have had no issues with sleeping bags nor tents (they do not use them).... Also depending on the travel of the road you are camped on odds are you wont get much if any IA traffic at day hours and at night I have heard of many different ways guys use to set up some type of perimeter at their camp but personally I think our group of Snoring hunters send them way out around (think it sounds like a den of bears) so we have yet to do anything ... We do sleep with our guns close though just in case !!!!

Carp there are a couple other roads that run back in the area but won't get you as deep in as the mercers gated roads and they are a heck of alot rougher ... the back area of copper canyon always seems to have a pretty big hunter density right around where the road comes into the locked gates ... But even if your not using the Mercers roads for access with a quad or horse you have alot of inlets that will get you close ... the fork off Tom Rhodes was washed out when we hunted it last So no full sized vehicles would make it through toward the Butte but many were making it in there with quads .... lots of good country between there and the mercers gates .... but best access into the wilderness towards the northwest side of cake mountain is the trailhead right at the ranch house on the mercers ranch through their rodes....

I am going with 123 7/8's ... Cool Buck all the way !