Str8Shot

Oh ! and one other point .... With all our technology and science behind us .... Scientists and meteorologist can not even get a 10 day forecast rite ..... Looks like the science and technology can always seem to be trumped by Mother Nature...

The glaciers have been shrinking since the last ice age this land we live in is the product of melted glaciers and there is just as much scientific data showing that world wide we are on a cooling trend .... the science can be manipulated to try to support ones opinion and MAN is just VAIN enough to think that He can have control over the natural processes that have been going since the beginning of time ..... It does not matter what we do... things in mother nature are going to happen and this planet will far outlive our Human race .... We should take care of this planet in the way we would our own homes so we do not live in a wasteland that litters the natural beauty all around us ... but the propaganda of the Green Movement is about $$$$$$$$$ not Saving this earth ..... I am not against doing the right things for the right reasons but until we stop importing 70 percent of consumer goods from other countries such as China or outlawing plastic man made containers I will not buy into this joke of a movement ..... Like I say ADAPT OR DIE !!!!!! I hope it something comes and thins our masses and the strongest that know how to use the land and take care of what mother nature has to offer are here to survive....

Yeah ..... The Gores of the world have really grown this whole Niche of global warming into a multi-billion tax dollar slot machine that pays out on every pull .... I guess the premise that the earth has been warming and glaciers have been melting since the last ice age is so easy it is hard to understand..... The idea that some things are out of our control when it comes to this planet can not be swallowed by the green movers..... or wait with lots of tax payers $$$$$$$$ they can bottle it up and sell it in many different forms .... When cooling is about to hit its apex in the next decade any bets on what the next color to replace green is ..... the orange movement where someone can get 100's of billions to try to control sun spots and solar flares ?????

Lark .... I am not disagreeing with you when it comes to legal search vs. illegal or 5th amendment rights .... I am talking about the constant bashing of guys doing their job... While I agree with being more vigilant in the field is a much better way to use their resources the fact is that we evolve to our technology and the internet is part of that ... The fact is their are stupid people out there breaking laws and then showing proof of their acts online through Blogs,forums,youtube,pictures and more... when questionable acts are documented in this medium we share and someone within the law acts on it so many are quick to attack that authority .... It has been key in more than just busting illegal hunters and poachers but also murders, rapists, and thieves as well ..... I am not passing judgment on the hunters involved( i am sure it was all good) but will not belittle the Officers who are doing their job.... To assume this is a big conspiracy and that it is some new way to police without doing field work I think is a little off key .... But Hey after years on this site of seeing guys going for blood over stolen cams and hoping to see someone caught red handed , when it did come to fruition the one with the cam in his hands was supported by many of the MOB here and the victim became the questioned .... So excuse me when I have to question why some are so quick to bash and get over defensive on subjects such as this .....

Wow str8 You are really a glass half full if you think there is any collaboration coming from the G&F for anything other than busting hunters. But seriously, you ask why are people on the defensive, well I for one don't live in a "glass palace". What I mean is I "might" have a couple lion kill skulls with no tag. I "might" have expired tags on my Samurai. I "might" not have a Copper tag on my motorcycle. I "might have too much gun powder for reloading. I "might" have more venison than a G&F think I should have. My kid "might be shooting his bb gun as we speak. Heck, my dog "might" not even have a license. Of course this is all hypathetical. I guess as the saying goes IGNORANCE IS BLISS ..... using all kinds of hypothetical situations to try to substantiate your Hypothetical point of a G&F conspiracy theory .... I don't recall the original post stating that homes were searched only that hunters where Questioned very much in the same way earlier this year a monster Archery kill had more than a couple members questioning the Validity of the guys kill because it was Hard horned at a time when 95% of kills are still in full velvet, putting the hunter in a situation where he was defending himself to people who do not even have any authority but tend to privy themselves as experts .... The sad truth is a percent of hunters neglect laws and the people who enforce those laws should be given a little more respect when it comes to what they have to deal with .... I don't like all the laws but I abide by them like them or not , for that I have no worries and could care less if some vane idiot who wants to brag, uses today's technology to post pics of an Elk that said was taken during a hunt before the first snowfall while there is 4 or 5 inches of snow around him or a Hunter who decided to take his kill shot a Day early or two days late and forgot that the date is on the picture, gets questioned ... I feel questioning should be ordered in cases like this.... I am sure when the questioned shows a camera that has the wrong date on it or the stories from involved parties are about the same the BIG BAD Game Officer is on his merry way, but If a person is guilty and gets caught through this process, I would give a big High Five to the ones that caught him/her... Freedom in this country was sold off to the highest bidders many years ago and as far as LAWS we have to many but We still have the right to make our choices when it comes to those laws but with every choice there is consequence, and the thing I hate the most is when people make the wrong choice and get caught then cry about the consequences and never man up .... If the guy is doing his Job let him if your caught breaking some law then Your bad not His (he did not make the laws)

Why are so many of you on the defensive here ..... I say let them use any avenue they have to stay on top of illegal activity when it comes to our big game in this state.... I have seen numerous people question pics on this site and others then assume way to much without having the full story , so what is the difference if it is being done by G&F and the truth comes out good or bad ? So when a G&F officer reads a post about the illegal activity in our southern units and teams up with border patrol to contact those witness to it and make sure they are following up on such things it is OK..... But when they see a kill pic that does not add up because of a date or maybe even more reasons they are in the wrong for following up on it ..... Guess I will just think about why some would worry so much and be so vocal on this issue ????

May want to check out Tempe Camera they rent out different models of cameras and Hi-def Video Cameras ....

You have to be kidding me ..... Not having your quad ruined your hunt??? ..... Do you actually read the regs where it is pointed out several times,do you at least look at the highlighted law changes at the beginning of the regs??? Then to get pissed off at a guy enforcing the law that he is hired to enforce ..... 1st- You have no one to blame for yourself for being ignorant of new laws like them or not 2nd- Get off your azz and walk and make the most of your hunt with the new knowledge you were given without the big time fines some have recieved 3rd - Someone call the Waaambulance !!!!! most here like me do not like all or any of the changes and laws we see but it takes a real piece of work to blame others for their own ignorance !! I am sure it is something you have done all your life and learned as a child maybe sometime you will step up and realize a real MAN takes responsibility for his own actions and in your case ignorance ....

With the character that buck has no matter the measurement he is awesome ......NICE PICK UP!!!! since it is gross I will have to say 135 5/8

Well if you want a replica that many can see you may want to submit a pic with Cabelas, and Bass pro Sportman's warehouse execs ... They may be interested in displaying a buck of that caliber from this state .... I know when Bass Pro opened up they were doing it with trophy fish caught here and if I remember right if you allowed them to display it in the store they paid for your personal mount as well.... Push some buttons They know a display of that beast will bring in people just to take a good look ..... Strike up a deal with them if they hook you up p.s. I like "GOLIATH"

+ 1 Could not agree more with that "NO"

Wow ... that is really sad to hear .... I have many great memories tied to that place ... At least the flames can't take those away from us .... ANy chance they will rebuild ????

308 ..... Was not trying to induce Pain, just inject a little bit of humor(laser guided smart bullets) Now to answer your questions... I understand using many new precision tools such as high powered magnums,good optics on gun and in hand, range finders are good things... It just seems these day's that a good percent of people especially newer hunters feel that spending the most and buying the best makes them a better hunter as soon as they leave the gun shop .... I think you said it best about being a hunter and shooter (and trust me I have read enough of your post to know you are a hunter not just a shooter) unfortunately today's technology is creating more shooters than hunters and trust me a small percentage have the skills or knowledge you and many others here possess... It is this, were I find my issues because the experience of hunting is far more than just shooting, and the many lessons and skills as well as ethics you learn over years of success and failure in the field that make hunters better as they grow are often hard learned by those starting at the most advanced and technical aspect of the sport ..... THE BEST TECHNOLOGY IN GUNS,SCOPES,OPTICS ECT... WILL NOT MAKE A PERSON A GOOD HUNTER, BUT THEY WILL MAKE A GOOD HUNTER BETTER .... So I do believe in using our advances but still think every person hunting should start the sport with an iron sight 30/30 and work up from there.... Now do I think game has a better chance of survival from a long range shooter .... ummmm .... NO WAY!!! at least not good ones like you (now those guys who fire off dozens of shots cutting up a hillside not knowing what they are hitting ... maybe ... maybe not) SO many things can go wrong during any stalk, especially if you are looking at getting to that 200 or 100 yards or less mark ..... Most big game reacts to conditions within 1/4 mile of where they are and at 800 yards you are well beyond that, swirling wind, bedded game between your destination all factors in sending the target away happy and healthy... And even the the Ulmer's and Adam's of the world will tell you of the countless failed stalks for every successful one .... There is also one other issue I have when it comes to long range shots and it comes from personal experience and That is what Shooters do not see between the scope and their target ....when you have been in an area since day break, When you have worked slowly and methodically for 45 mins. and get in a position where you are getting prepared for a shot and all the sudden hear the sound of a bullet right over head ripping by... seeing dust fly 3 feet from one of the deer , then another shot ....miss, and a third a miss that busts them off running... only to slowly crawl up and look back behind you in your Bino's at a spot on the higher ridge 500 + yards from you with a guy shooting from a claw or some kind of tripod mounted vise who was not there when you started your move to get a better shot and had no clue you were even in the area ..... It makes a guy want lay down prone right there and reach out and touch someone and If I had your data and knew 100 % I could take his trigger finger only at that range I may have been tempted at taking A long Shot.... When there are 600+ hunters in a unit and you are hunting in areas you see any kind of traffic on the points of entry or in the field around you when you start over the course of the day there is always the possibility when you spot game that someone else may have also and can be between you and your target on a stalk and though it can and probably does happen with hunters at much closer ranges usually those pushing in for closer shots will be more likely to see the other hunter/hunters in the area than that guy focused on the long shot ....

Man that deer looks a little pissed off in the picture giving you some Stink eye for finding him .... But seriously Awesome Buck broken or not .... Since you have field pics of him I think the break should be left alone ... Gives him extra character and shows he was out there living and running with the big boys

Now all that is left to do 308Nut is Attach your precision rifle to an automated tripod mount system with a remote trigger and hook up your computer .... type in your data, hit enter, and BAM!!! dead animal at 800,900, or even a thousand yards sounds like fun hunting to me.... hopefully soon we will be able to have some laser guided smart bullets for our hunting rifles too that would be cool..... We can take all human error out of the equation and show those dumb animals how awesome we really are ...... On a serious note though 308nut cool data and info for those who don't think they can cut at least half or more of the distance off an 800 yard shot ..... Growing up always herd the term about how hunting was just between the game and the hunter and just like everything it has evolved to be between The Game and the hunter plus his laptop,google and the www and 100 other hunters on his blackberry contact list !!!!! Isn't evolution cool ??? I bet the wild Animals We hunt think so

Of course it is human nature to ask .... many of the ones who rant are in cliques that allow them a bit more info and for that they feel special and I understand but over the next few years when I get one of those toads I will let everyone know what unit without asking ..... but hey that is just me ..... I have seen some big ones from north to almost as far south as you can go plenty to be found out in those hills if you happen to be in the right place at the right time .....

June Are you Kidding me ???? SO many post have this past year as horrible.... bad numbers of quality bucks anywhere to be found .... I don't get it G&F must have everything screwed up and our coues are disappearing right before us .... Bet most of these big ones were taken in mexico and people are just saying it was here cause the big boys are not around anywhere ..... OK that was a bunch of sarcasm to poke at some who think everything is screwed up and yet I can't think of a recent year I have seen so many quality bucks and not just posted here .... I think it would be neat for Amanda to maybe do a quick check and break down the last few years and how many bucks over 90" or a 100" have been posted each season cause this year seems like a bunch more than the few before

Won't change a thing on public lands .....

AZcoues here is a link to the Nosler Reloading Data .... Great caliber my Bro loves his but I have not worked up any loads for him..... but this is always the best way to start .... Good luck http://www.nosler.com/index.php?p=15&b=7mm&s=255 And for IMR and Hodgdon data here is a link http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

don't know where you went to school? someone call the 1st grade math teacher. you said it, not me. when you see 400 deer and 1 if any 100" bucks that is .025% of the population, not 10-15%. according to your math, 40-60 100" buck should have been seen. something is wrong???? maybe this is the same math our very own G & F is using to manage. it's sad..... let's say that there should be a buck to doe ratio of 3/10. with 400 deer there should have been 93 bucks. based of your info at minimum 10% should bee 100 class bucks. once again 9 bucks should have made that mark. not even close..... SDR I was talking in general and not specific to any numbers I did make a grammer error in saying deer when I meant Bucks my bad ... but I was never using their numbers in figuring anything and if you read I stated less than 10 - 15 % which is also a more general statement I will go back and fix the wording thnx ... and the less than 10 - 15 percent number was one I had read I know it can be much lower than that but I doubt any higher ....

very well said.. Str8shot, This is not a pity fest, just the facts and observations that are mentioned. I myself have seen the decline in deer/bucks, in some units more than others, but the trend is happening. I will not shoot deer that score under 100", I dont care what tag I have, and it does not make me any better or superior to those that shoot smaller deer. There were days when those bucks got me very excited, and I simply like to challenge myself. To each their own. I simply would like to see those deer mature and grow up. I think that good hunters have made some intersting observations.. the buck to doe ratios that they have observed are not very good, and while they maybe and probably are off slightly, the message is that there are issues happening with the deer herds that should be addressed immediately by our game department. I believe it is a multitude of issues, and while there is more than one correct answer, there are some underlying prinicpals that begin with factual information not pie in the sky pulled out the behind stuff, that would help the dept understand what is happening.. Sorry guys about the wambulance comment I often forget how sarcastic comments can go over heads .... Still I understand what your saying and While I can not speak specific to your unit but to the one next to it I can tell you that we seen a very healthy number of deer this year .... With good buck to doe ratios and during the time of the scouts and hunt it would be more immature deer but Also scouted some real toads and good bachelor herds as well and more than a handful .... And the fawning was impressive as well with majority of what we seen as twins so the bucks did their job fine in early 09 as I am sure they will in early 10 ..... My issue comes from the Trophy hunters that seem to blame everything in the book but the practice of taking only the most mature bucks .... Culling many of the small more immature deer is as important to the overall Size and health of the herd as well as the quality of your trophies as Taking out year round predators like lions ...... It is far more complex then to many tags /hunts/hunters but that is all to often the easy excuse to not seeing the numbers of bucks you may have seen a year or two prior .... SO when i hear a hunter who sets his sights on the size bucks that exclude all but about 10 percent or less of the bucks on the hill and blame everything in the book for not having an enjoyable hunt I feel no empathy for him or her ...... Maybe sticking to all the does at that time was just the wrong strategy for you guys..... We still have 8 to 15 days before the Rut really kicks in anyways so that gives you time to grab your bows and go turn your frowns upside down

Someone call the Wambulance ...... It is called hunting for a reason and yet it seems so many want to blame G&F for their lack of success .... to many tags , to many hunts, the wrong dates for hunts .... IMO hunters need to step up and look at their own delusional desires for only the biggest .... If your hunting for a trophy that makes up less than 10 or 15 percent of the buck population in the herd than you are on a 10 or 15 percent hunt... it does not matter coues, muley , elk it is all the same....I want to know when 100" plus coues made up more than maybe 10 percent of the bucks seen in the field.... to hear someone say they passed on a 100" 2x2 and then complain about less opportunity or quality is absurd ... Do that many of you here think it makes you less of a man or woman to drop a smaller deer, or maybe you think dropping a toad is the only way to make you seem like a good hunter? ...... 3 weeks during almost the best time of the year vs. 1 when it is hot and miserable and to still hear hunters crying... please .... Here is an idea for you Get rid of the late Nov. hunt and triple the number of tags for Dec. making 3 week long hunts P.S. just watch when several more toads come out of the unit before the end of January with an arrow stuck in them will you still be crying all the big ones are gone ......

Nice Job done... all you guys and young lady have great looking kills and some good eats for the grill.... Aaron sounds like you have had some year out in the field with all the help on youth hunts to your guys Dec tags you deserve the success after helping all those just getting into the field ....

I am guessing that is when she added the current forum system to her site ....

DEC. 23rd is a very good day indeed..... Happy Birthday CWT