Str8Shot

The prices in the original were reduced as noted at the bottom ... trailer is not dropping any lower

2004 Artic Cat 4x4 300 for sale, great running condition and excellent for getting out on the trails during hunting season or for recreation, normal wear and tear and 1740 miles, Tires have good tread but two are starting to crack from heat, new battery front and back racks and rifle holders. $1700 OBO serious buyers only please text or call (480) two 6 Two 04 09 Also for sale is a 2006 gravely utility trailer 5'2 x14' actual cargo mesurments inner rail to rail, with ramp, spare, and front stroage... $850 Just posted these today on CL but am listing them here for a discount to forum members... Sorry in advance, but not looking at trades Dropped prices on 02/12

prices lowered

ttt

That is a once in a lifetime trophy to be proud of awesome job .... by the way, were you guys coming off the water on Sunday packing it out?

Come on those are G&F decoys ... many have already said on these forums, that all the bucks are bulls have been wiped out by all the tags given by that greedy G&F in all those units Good luck on your hunt

I am laughing my butt off, at your statement, that all the good bulls, cows and the statement " killed the elk off" in 3c ... 3c still has an excellent population of elk and I nor the many hunters I know that hunt that unit year after year continue to see quality and numbers of Elk including this year ... if anything the herd has gotten stronger since the fire even with the hunting harvest of the last 8 years, but if you feel they are all gone please negate those hunts as choices on your application so I may finally get a Bull tag for the hunt and unit I want p.s. the increase in trophy hunters in these units all looking to harvest 400+ class Bulls has just as much an impact on the herd as the number of tags... if one thing can be learned, we can learn it from the White Mountain Apache Tribe, that too many cows and rags horns not being culled from the herd effects the numbers of big bulls in the long run.... They seen the impact many years back and have been offering numerous opportunities to hunters to balance out the cows and rag horns since to improve the herds... keep in mind this helps in 3c since many move back and forth over the fence lne

I hate when people start talking about Unions as they are all the same ... Private unions (those for workers in industry) have lobbied to make many changes that are beneficial to all workers but they are a representative between the workers and owners/ stockholders of a company , and as of the last couple decades have used their power to make workers less accountable for work performance(much harder to discipline for job performance) while getting pay increases year after year... this causes a few things in the long term ...1- more jobs shipped over seas( why you think i phones are all built in china) ... 2- inflation and higher prices of goods since the stockholders and owners are not going to take losses they pass it on to the consumer ... 3rd- less productive workers ... This does not mean all private unions are bad and do not have a place in the current economic environment, but they should be policed since they have a vested interest in success of the industry What is the real problems are comes down to Public unions ... since they are fed by tax dollars and taxpayers are never going away ... Public unions + collective bargaining ='s toxic waste and is one of the reasons we are in mess we have today in this country... These Union workers have almost 0 accountability and often get paid more and more regardless if what they are doing is failing and costing taxpayers more dollars year after year, huge pensions that make little since to any accountant on how they will be paid for and corrupt power in every aspect of local, state, and federal governments makes these Unions Toxic to all taxpayers p.s. Unions tried for an 8hourday/40 hour work week all through 1800 and even going further back in England, but the actual real change to the 8hourday/40hour week came voluntarily by Henry Ford in his first plant and not because of unions but based on output and productivity ... Fords model was so successful that in many sectors of industry it was adopted as standard practice before it became law... Unions lobbied for it, but the fact is; many in industry were already doing it regardless of unions

I would say bad luck for hunters on both sides ... there is a big difference between hunter A and Hunter B coming from different areas putting a stalk on the same buck ...and a situation where hunter B knows you are a hunting a particular area you reached first and camping on top and around you all hunt ( I have been in this situation and it is much easier to move on ) ... getting screwed would have been if there was a Hunter C on a ridge 1k out who decided to throw lead at a buck you were stalking... If you were at 50 yards from the buck when seeing the other hunter who was further off at that point, what kept you from putting him down? you said he came from further out to put himself between you a the deer... did you actually see the buck or think you were about 5o yards from him ?

Very nice country ( minus the trash and illegals) but makes for a great plan B ... make sure to have your lion tag ... those dang cats are encroaching in a couple of our areas last year where we seen almost no sign years prior

Trphy ... I have no Idea why you would have tag #856 of a hunt with 800 tags but I would thing G&F can answer that for you ... I did not hunt or scout this year as I was helping on a mule deer hunt in 23... I will most likely be down there again next year and all I can say is that there has not been a year since my first trip down there that we were not able to find quality bucks ( sometimes the ones you scout don't show up for the hunt but that is how it can go), Vegasjeep knows some the areas I like and have scouted/hunted .. some areas in 36b hold good numbers but not many will pass that 95-100" mark (lots in that 80 - 90 range), while other areas seem to have much better and more that pass that 100" mark ... in 2011 in much worse weather than just passed we seen only a couple big ones early in the and had another hunter always trying to push into were we were hunting every morning ( I do not blame number of tags for this just an A**HOLE hunter) passed on about a half dozen smaller ones and then last day I missed a decent 3x3... in 2010 I was spotting for family and friends not hunting seen over 30 bucks ( not counting forks or spikes) biggest bachelor herd was 7 deer with 4 of them easily being over 100"'s and the biggest in that 115 - 120 range ... unfortunately my brothers friend from Cali who had only one deer hunt in his pocket could not get over his buck fever and missed twice on 2 different days on 100"+ bucks and missed 4 total through the hunt ... Only a couple smaller bucks were taken by other hunters.

There has been an average tag increase of general hunts in 36b of 6 - 13 % of the tags depending on the year in comparison to 2007 that consisted of 2 early and Dec hunts ( this year 2012 is about 6%) the average buck harvest has seen an increase of 16 - 31% ( all greater than the total tag increases) with 2009 and 2010 being the best years... yet the majority of hunts through the 3 hunt change remained around 20% meaning all hunts are producing bucks... Does it suck that there are a lot fewer Dec. tags ... I bet that would depend on if you are the guy holding the tag ... if there were still two early hunts with over 1k hunters each like 2007 or 200 Dec tags , those hunters,who are unsuccessful, would complain and still blame G&F ... It is true that in many units the pushing together of junior hunts, Whitetail, and general mule deer hunts creates a lot of pressure and it would be nice to see a bit fewer tags and some interval between hunts, but 36b is a big unit that I have scouted and hunted a good deal of over the last 6 years and during each hunt time and bucks and opportunities were available on all of them. So please share how G&F has limited opportunity in a unit that has seen significant % increases in harvest beyond the % increase of tags since 2007 If your seeing large herds of does down there you need to be looking at the surrounding ranges, the bigger drainages, and the litter thicker stuff and those bachelor herds are around( not right on top of but...) I have seen them in the early, mid and late Nov hunts... sometimes they get broken up for a spell but they seem to get back together Being born and raised in AZ I would love to have it how my grandfather and dad did when I was a kid, but blaming G&F for everything including lack of success is a fracking sell out and in my opinion becoming way to common and getting very old on this site.

It was... but I am sure the news traveled quick about Obama securing his second term combine that with a big drop in temps and the flood gates were bound to open up... I doubt they are even worried anymore about securing jobs since they are good at abusing the Liberal entitlements.... Obama and Democrats looking to secure a new bunch of illegal voters for the next house elections to try and get the house and senate democrat for his last 2 years like he had his first 2

lol ... you did not ask about the illegal to buck ratio in 36b ... I would say that number is a little higher than 12 to 1 from our experience down there, some of those herds have 20+ all trying to curl up under one tree on the cold mornings like a bunch of Javelina

During this time of year in 36b you will see good groups of does usually with spikes and some forks .... the better bucks are in bachelor groups and a little further away from were you would be seeing the does. this is the first year in the last 6 that I did not spend a hunt down there and in years past ( a few just helping find them) we have seen numerous bachelor herds of bucks from 4 - 8 bucks in a group. I think the key in those southern units during these earlier hunts is not sticking right in the areas you are seeing large numbers of does (unless looking for a tender spike), this does not mean move to the other side of the unit but the bachelor herds do seem to like some distance from the doe herds. In all the trips down there scouting, and on hunts and not counting spikes I would say we have on average no more than 10 - 12 does per buck... the hardest part once the hunt has started is finding them and getting them in the cross hairs.

I think 308 nut nit the nail on the head stating that the 6.5-284 is not a 1k yard Elk gun regardless of trajectory... well placed shot and energy on impact are both needed .... I am going off memory since my reloading books reside with my dad where I still load with him, but looking at doing loads for a 7mm saum for a friend the 162 gr Amax loads would be far superior to the 140 amax 6.5 load you are selling... the 7mm saum would have over 900 ft-lb @ 1000 versus 600 -650 ft-lb from the 6.5 and the 7mm 162 Amax has a BC of .625, and much flatter trajectory than your 6.5 as well... I am not sure( you can share some if I am wrong) if there is even a load out there in the 6.5-284 that could get much higher than the 600 - 700 ft-lb of energy at 1000 yards without being extremely hot and burning up barrels... I still think 308nut is right, but if your just going by the numbers then the 7mm SAUM with 162 gr Amax would be in the same arena as the .30 cals a lot more so than the 6.5-284... p.s. Hornady does not recommend A-Max or BTHP Match for hunting as they are not tested for expansion and I do not recommend nor support 1k shots on any big game, but if it floats your boat ... cheers!

My cousin and I had a very close encounter with bandidos in 36b, and they were not in camo and all were carrying Kalashnikovs... but they were on our side of the border a couple years back, maybe they have upgraded... The mules we have reported in 36b and were taken by BP no camo ... I agree it could be numerous situations including federales ... Seen many strange things down there including blacked a completely blacked out SUV doing about 60 through Warsaw canyon on a moonless night with no headlights, so something like these guys would be no surprise nor worry unless those guns came pointing my way!

Lets see... in the last year, game and fish, has created daylong shooting of coyotes, and mountain lions in many problem units, they have lifted the restriction on magazine capacity, are trying to lift the restriction on suppressors and fighting the federal government to not steal state sportsman's dollars. Sounds like they are just trying to screw hunters... hmm really? I could care less if it is about disease or not... there are plenty of studies (and why some think that studies from other areas do not pertain to behaviors of deer in Az is beyond me) that clearly show that baiting creates a more limited feeding range and limits movement of deer through traditional home habitats and increases nocturnal feeding habits. If you pro baiters have studies that show these guys are wrong please share them because in a state with a population such as Az changing feeding,home/migration habits do negatively effect other hunters. If it did not there would not be so many who get pissed off when they find others in their baited honey holes. Let them do their jobs and quit crying foul. I would be more worried of the federal government and what may happen in the next 4 years

Well based on your reply.... I will scrutinize you... why do you feel the need to point out another members views (CNS) on a totally different topic and then speak for him? That's bush league man... Redman ... I am not speaking for him " If it is legal it is also ethical" are his own words as it pertains to Ethics and hunting (this type of thought can not be exclusive) . This does not constitute a grey area and if truly believed does not allow for one to think the opposite when he or she chooses. I brought up the comment because the key point of the OP was on ethical killing and it seems to be that many( not all) individuals here believe the same way as this highly looked up to member of the site, and they only seem to associate ethics with legality versus the moral practices and beliefs of the majority of people around them.

eth·ic (thk) n. 1. a. A set of principles of right conduct. b. A theory or a system of moral values: "An ethic of service is at war with a craving for gain" (Gregg Easterbrook). 2. ethics (used with a sing. verb) The study of the general nature of morals and of the specific moral choices to be made by a person; moral philosophy. 3. ethics (used with a sing. or pl. verb) The rules or standards governing the conduct of a person or the members of a profession: medical ethics. mor·al (môrl, mr-)adj. 1. Of or concerned with the judgment of the goodness or badness of human action and character: moral scrutiny; a moral quandary. 2. Teaching or exhibiting goodness or correctness of character and behavior: a moral lesson. 3. Conforming to standards of what is right or just in behavior; virtuous: a moral life. 4. Arising from conscience or the sense of right and wrong: a moral obligation. 5. Having psychological rather than physical or tangible effects: a moral victory; moral support. 6. Based on strong likelihood or firm conviction, rather than on the actual evidence: a moral Many people like to attach ethics with only principles of law, but ethics are just as much about moral actions... My reference was to the OP and using a recent example of a member who stated that legality constitutes ethical choice, a notion i disagree with. As a group we have a responsibility to police ourselves and try to influence moral/ethical choices of a group as a whole. An individual who advertises his kill with the specific reference to being a very long shot ( 1200+ yards) and tries to say it was not about the posturing and gloating of such a feat is full of BS... That kill was about the distance and the fact that pictures where taken to authenticate the action proves there was a premeditation to accomplishing such a feat and sharing with the internet world. If it was a 125" buck killed, the highlight would still be about the distance of the shot versus the quality of the kill. I disagree with this kind of long shot mentality as much as I do baiting game... neither is ethical nor moral in my opinion, and I am not afraid to say so.

According to, Coues-n-Sheep, per his letter to G&F on baiting ban " if it is legal it is ethical" so minus breaking a law there can be no breach of ethics... I am sure, C-n-S thinks completely the same way about the banks and mortgage companies, and that they were being ethical when they screwed Americans, since what they were doing was not against the law... Of course, I believe this notion to be absolutely absurd, and inaccurate ( too many examples of legal behaviors, that go far beyond being remotely close to ethical). I believe ethics, and moral responsibility go far beyond just laws, and though measured on an individual scale, they deserve scrutiny from those in this world, whom may be affected by one's choice.

Casey .. what are the measurements of that Rack ?

Bobby O' Bobby ... not defensive just my opinion ... you have yours ... it is all good

And a guy that uses an Ultramag to hunt a 60 pound animal is some how Angelic? I said it a couple years ago and even though it caused a little outcry so I will say it again. A hunter using an ultramag is compensating for other inadequacies if you know what I mean. Same could be said for guys who need bait bobbyo ... and it is less about the gun and more about the load ... 165 gr ... never a shot over 200 yards and no meat loss ... but seems pretty humane to see them drop right in their tracks with no suffering ..un-like running 50 yards with a rage cut through you ...

Bowhunterforlife may want a new handle ... maybe like baithunterforlife or MasterbaiterforLife.... and I will say it again even though it caused a little out cry a couple years ago when I said it " a hunter using bait is no different than a pediophile using an ice creme truck to hunt his prey "