Str8Shot

CnS You are the Hypocrite always looking for the grey in order to justify your actions that go against the rules. I can also tell you , being born and raised in Az and being taught from my parents, boy scouts, and school backpacking groups about everything from hunting and fishing to backpacking and survival, I have not Left personal property or trash in our forests. I am from the camp of pack it in pack it out. I have been known to go off on friends who smoke(as I do not) for leaving a smothered cigarette butts and making them pick it up. Who cares if they are not highly enforced laws, that does not change the fact that there are rules and you decide to use the argument "since they are not highly enforced it is Okay for ME", in my opinion it is not Okay . If you Do not like a rule or law, do what needs to be done to try to change it. Again your thought process is one of those liberal notions that helps the arguments that illegals should be given amnesty and green cards. The fact you could not answer my question proves you probably never take the time to know the rules/laws of OUR national forests. So to help you out I will give you some links .... Your Property aka Vehicle or back pack with lunch is not considered abandoned unless unattended for a 24 hour period, it also says that taken abandoned property is to be turned into LEO and Forest service. If I have issue with a stand or blind that has been sitting unused or unattended for days, or weeks it is not that hard to tell the forest service where it is , and yes they do impound them. I do not condone taking another persons property, as I have said many times, but I do not condone people trying to play in the grey who gable with their $$$$ leaving things in our forests only to come on forums and cry that they have been wronged. You take a risk knowing that abandoning something on public lands may disappear that is your fault , not mine or any other hunter on this forum. If I do not agree with you that makes me the enemy, fine, I am not looking to be your friend CnS as that is something that is pretty hard to do when you are always attacking people personally when you get your feelings hurt or do not see eye to eye. There is nothing hypocritical in doing what I have been taught all my life to do when outdoors using OUR public lands again it is pretty simple. -Follow the laws and Rules of the land (not pick and choose because some are not as enforced) -Pack it in pack it out , always leave the land better when you leave then when you arrived -be respectful and helpful to others for your reading ... and there is a lot of it , as well each forests can make changes and alterations so always best to talk to the Directors in charge of each if any question. http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/search/pagedetails.action?collectionCode=CFR&searchPath=Title+36%2FChapter+I%2FPart+2&granuleId=&packageId=CFR-2007-title36-vol1&oldPath=Title+36%2FChapter+I%2FPart+1&fromPageDetails=true&collapse=true&ycord=400

CnS You are right we all own and should share the forest . of course that includes the laws and regulations that come with said Use. As far as your statement "Doing nothing Wrong" please enlighten us on how there are not regulations on leaving personal property on public lands"owned by All" there are no abandonment time lines, there are no regulations pertaining to the cutting and defacing of live trees ... please enlighten us on why so many think that is ok to disregard such regulations since they seem so trivial and contrary to the actions they want to take ... ohhhh and while you are at it realize it is the same stupid argument used by liberals who say that people crossing our boarders are not really doing nothing wrong, they are not breaking a law , so they are not criminals..... So lets give them green cards ! the fact remains that their are regulations on how we use our public lands and Any person who decides to turn the other cheek to justify their action , while they may think they are ethical based on their own Moral compass , are breaking laws and in fact a criminal just as they feel the guy "technically not breaking a law removing abandoned property from the field" is not. While I would not engage or condone the action of taking what is not yours. I have no sympathy for someone who does not act in accordance with the rules/laws we should all adhere to, when it happens to them. I guess that idea makes the Officers with their truck bed filled with abandoned stands, chairs, tarps , and blinds are all thieves too and not just doing their job...

Ethics are branches or a philosophy of self imposed rules based on what an individual or group feels is morally right or wrong/good or bad. The reality is that we do not all follow the same moral compass, and human nature often motivates individuals to push the boundaries of what is right or wrong while still justifying that an action is Ethical. This is the very reason we have rules and laws that actually define the lines in principle to what the majority of individuals would believe is morally right or wrong. This of course does not mean every rule/law is ethical or for that point right, but what makes them fair is that all should abide by them. The fact is many hunters on this site barely read the regulations, and even fewer read or know the rules of our national forests, which vary from forest to forest to some degree. When you live in a society, and are part of a group that often uses ignorance and unknowing, as an argument to justify that what they are doing is ethical and therefore right, you create chaos. You may not like walking an extra 100 yards to cross at the crosswalk, but jaywalking is illegal.. just as you may not like having less security on a trail cam, but lag bolting into a live tree is also illegal. If there is a law governing an action then the only Ethical choice is to follow the law. If you do not like the law, then start a process to try and have it changed. I am an Az native that has been in the outdoors all my life. I have packed out 100's of pounds of other peoples garbage, and cleaned up 100's of campsites over the years and No not all left by hunters, but I can tell you a fair amount have been. Also in my life, camping dozens of weekends a year from the southern border to the North, between fishing and hunting I have yet to have anything taken from a campsite. This does not mean I condone someone taking anything from the forest that is not theirs, but I also do not condone people who choose not to follow the rules/laws. Just because I am a hunter and on a forum does not mean I have to agree with any one person or the mob that sees things differently than I do... I see things very simple.. Follow the rules and laws of Public lands, lakes and Resources leave the places I hike, camp, hunt or fish in better shape and cleaner than when I arrived. Respect others and go out of the way to help if I can. (this does not mean I have to respect ignorance and individuals breaking rules/laws no matter how much they want to sell their reasoning for feeling justified)

Just remember the disclaimer on the on-line app that so many cry babies pointed out when they extended the deadline by a day ... I sure hope they are not postponing the draw trying to remedy errors that people had using their system, because that would just be wrong ... LMAO

DAAAAAAVE! Do you ever feel Like a plastic bag Drifting through the wind Wanting to start again Do you ever feel Feel so paper-thin Like a house of cards One blow from caving in

Websites use disclaimers all the time, but that does not mean that the entity running the site, is it not going to try and do right by the people using their site if an issues arises. People who use their system in good faith that it will function properly at anytime during the process. The one thing I can guarantee, is the IDIOTS whining over G&F doing what they feel is the right thing would be singing a different tune if the use of the on-line system caused other issues. They would be whining, screaming,yelling, and crying, if in the 11th hour a virus corrupted every bit of data making every application done on-line disappear, and G&F replied with "You Should have Read our disclaimer. We will only be drawing from paper applications this year!!!" I see a bunch of children constantly on this sight complaining how everyone should do things the same way they do, when in reality life is far to chaotic that anyone should even have such expectations. You got in the first hour it was up good for you! The other guy could not get in the last hour it should have been up, and got an extra day, I am glad he had the opportunity to. Those whining should get over themselves and go do some volunteer work or something more constructive than crying here about G&F.

It would be cheaper and probably more effective if they just did a rifle raffle each week for the online applicants cutting off the last week.. So the guys who put in week one has 6 or however many chances to win something each week ... the earlier you put in the more chances you have

One would think by the BS constantly spewing out trashing Game and Fish, that they send officers daily to every CWT members house to piss on their Cheerios! Those that understand IT and how things work will tell the rest, that even the biggest , highest dollar server houses fail when hit beyond their capacity all at once. You may think that G&F would just say lets spend the money to make sure that our servers can handle 300,000 log-ins and processes any given minute, but trust me not a single one of you here would want the ridiculous amount of money that would cost to be added to your tags or license... Get over your whining and go do something productive today. So what, your chance at a tag got altered by a fraction of a percent... get over it and yourself!

a couple hundred sold and a lot more for those needing them ... Pm me if you are interested ,

I have several hundred like new Utility bins (not the stack type which go for about 3 x's more) for shelves and fixtures. Dimensions 4 x 6 5/8 x 17 5/8, Great for those guys who like to organize things. $1 each or $20 per 25 .... Located in East Valley/Apache junction but go as far west daily as chandler. If interested shoot me a PM

Agree with Grey ... best to take out screws ... even if I have to use a dremel with cutoff wheel to slit the heads and use pliers later to remove... having a mostly intact deck makes it much easier to to use as a template and layout on new material.

meant to include originally ... Added to original

http://lgfarrier.com/Home.php I know Gene is out there in queen creek and they did all my moms horses.

I would look at REI ... I have used slumber jack 0 degree bags, but not any light weight options anymore out there ... Buddy of mine picked this one up at REI not to long ago and the price is lower now than when he got it .. great bag and under 3 lbs .... http://www.rei.com/product/879592/rei-lumen-sleeping-bag-long-special-buy#tab-specs REI has a lot of options out there ... including lighter weight bag that are just as effective if you want to drop the $$$$

From what I understand , when doing your new license online or going into G&F you can pick the date that the new one goes into effect so there is no overlap. So I am not sure where the issue would be since if yours expires on 2/11 you can buy today and have new one start on ... and after talking to 2 different offices they both say valid at time of app deadline , not when actual draw takes place ..

Beautiful.... nice work

have someone pending and will follow up if it falls through ,,, Thanks

I know there have been several guys wanting to take aged venison and beef cuts off others hands to use for their Dogs ... I am clearing out a good amount of venison from my dad and my brother is looking at freeing space in his freezer as well ( he has some older grass fed beef from a slaughter as well as venison ) not sure how much in total , but I would guess between 60 - 70 lbs from both ... if you are one of these guys and want to pick up for your pups .. let me know in message and we can work out details ... located in east valley ..

Sold !

Got my son this bipod for his gun and only used it at the range for a few shots, did not fit his sitting height well and went to smaller one for hunt ... Like new, in box First $40.00 takes it , can meet in east valley ... Will take all requests but first available to meet and pick up will get it ...

You can only take 1 Javelina per hunt # .... So if wanting to take a second using leftover tags they would have to be a different hunt # ... Just in case anyone was confused

I would agree with with those that say stick to the roads and glass while also paying attention to camps and areas of higher pressure.... With that being said I personally believe ( epsecially with the cost of gas depending on the the drive) that scouting prior to the early hunts and then after the actual rifle hunts has been better for those I have helped comethe late Archery season .... I am just starting to take up archery, have not shot since a teen, but I am a deer finding machine for family and friends ... During the rifle hunts, especially the later hunts the pressure has a lot of bucks pushed deep and much harder to get a real idea where you may see them come Mid to late Dec. It is amazing how much can change in their paterns after a week or two of not being chased .. often finding them in areas seen prior to the firts hunts . I feel it is best to let those with tags hunt without the additional traffic and guessing if the guy in the spot they are looking to hunt actually has a tag or is scouting.... We have always doen better relocating Bucks in the late archery hunts by focusing om scouting the weekends for the month prior to oepning of general rifle and usually a weekday or two prior to the start of the late Archery!

the all knowing Troll Using words like typical and average are funny .... Is it possible even if not very probable , the answer would be YES.... Do not let the All knowing Troll keep you from sharing as there are many of us that do enjoy seeing such success .... Trust me when I say I know the one big Tom that runs the small desert washes and feeds of the neighborhood pets out by us is easily 25 lbs and I would not go as far as using the words in the wild where this guy and another handful hang out and have been seen.... it was not a fleeting look but a couple minutes of scrapping with a pit that is on the big side at 38 lbs... olmos thanks for the link ... I am betting he will call that 32 lb cat from Az on the first page BS too ... because I doubt he will eat crow

I know one tom inside of city limits in the east valley that is easily over 25 lbs. maybe even pushing the 30 range ... been eating healthy on small pets in the neighborhoods and watched him go toe to toe with a 38 lb pit bull a few weeks back .... never seen the Op's pic but does seem a bit unfair to be making comments just because you think it not possible .. The average top weight for a chihuahua is 8 lbs but I have a friends who's little rat is 22 lbs.

For those wanting decent glass but not able to buy those Vortex Vipers, Zeiss or Zen Rays... Camofire has the Nikon Prostaff 7 10x42 for $155 versus the normal $350 for a little over 2 more hours... Decent glass that can easily be made as a backup down the road when you can afford the ones you really want...