Str8Shot

Many on this site like to complain about everyone and everything but their all knowing selves. Often the Game and fish department is ridiculed and disparaged on almost every move or decision they make. The reality is, No one is perfect and no one person knows it all, but if it were not for some motivated outdoors men and organizations including the game and fish. None of us would have the luxury today to sit on a computer and cry about when, if, and where we may be able to hunt in some of the best Elk Country in the world. It is hard to believe that only 10 decades ago+ a few years( for those 20 - 30 yo guys that is only 3 - 5 times your age) there were no elk left in this state. After our native herds of Merriam's Elk had been hunted out by 1910.By the early 1920's the total National numbers of Elk were in the range of 90,000 head with almost 40,000 of the nations elk residing in Yellowstone National Park . In 1913 a group of citizens, private groups, the Elks, with the help of some politicians who gave support introduced the first 83 Rocky Mountain Elk to Arizona. When we talk Genetics we must know that numerous states used the same herds from Yellowstone through the early to mid 1900's to rebuild dwindling populations. The state legislator and a single Game Warden was in control of our wildlife and New growing Elk population for the first 17 years. In 1929 after years of lobbying by citizens the Game and Fish Commission was created and entrusted with the future prosperity of our Wildlife for future generations utilizing science versus politics. So begun the AZ game and Fish Department as we know it today under a commission. By 1935 The first elk hunts began and ever since Game and Fish has worked with various groups and citizens to continue growing and maintaining a herd that is known to have some of the best Bulls in the world and the most sought after tags by Non resident Hunters. By the mid 80's ( 7 decades later) the number of Elk , the quality of Elk and the opportunity to hunt these Majestic animals has increased exponentially. This would not have been possible with out the Game and Fish, no matter how much you want to think it could have. I am thankful to the generations of individuals who seen the importance of such a task, the Game and Fish of old for laying a foundation and the new who continue to work hard to try and ensure future generations will have the same opportunities to enjoy our wildlife as we all have. I am 40, and when you look at it 10 decades is not that long of a time to go from 83 animals to the stable herds we have today that have maintained pretty solid for last couple decades even with 8,000-9,000 head being harvested annually. I feel, we owe it to those that helped ensure we get to even have the chance to draw a tag year after year to know the history.... I also feel that G&F deserves a little more support and acknowledgment for their part in keeping a healthy quality herd. http://www.elks.org/lodges/LodgePages.cfm?LodgeNumber=536&ID=365 http://www.azgfd.gov/i_e/pubs/documents/ElkRestoration_000.pdf http://www.azgfd.com/h_f/documents/2011%20Elk%20Management%20Plan%20December%203%202011.pdf http://www.azgfd.com/h_f/game_elk.shtml p.s. I have no affiliation with G&F nor do I agree with everything they do, but I will not sit back and belittle people, with more detailed knowledge than myself, for trying to do their jobs.

I like all the guys that try to convince everyone there are no more good bulls left in many of the units .... and the premier members that tear up on the rest, especially the noobs that are asking on their very first post or two .... Let the next few Months of entertaining bickering begin ... My recommendation is only this .... If you have the late hunts , save your money and limit your scouting to a few trips, and the last two taking place within the weeks leading to your open... The money saved may be able to pay for a mule pack out of your trophy, and in some units once successful, many are going to wish they did ... Oh and one more thing for the first time E-scouters ... the G&F "Where to Hunt" gives enough information to find good starting points that even a Home Schooled Kid from Arkansas could have a fighting chance of tagging out .... and I have nothing against people from Arkansas

rossislider Yeah ... I often fish the 4 3/8" or 5 and 1/4 in these baits on Big lake trailing salmon eggs ... The rainbow trout ,holo clown , and holo Tennessee are colors I use .... you will be surprised at even how many 12 inch fish try to gobble up a big lure .... http://yo-zuri.com/OnlineStore/Classic_Lures/Crystal_Minnow_Series/details/Crystal_Minnow_Floating.html If those are not turning them on I will go to the pins minnows ... in more native colors ... on the Black the smallest M37 was a killer I go with the 3 1/2 inch most the times on lakes though... http://yo-zuri.com/Products/Pins_Minnow_Series/details/Pins_Minnow_Floating.html been a long time since I fished the snake .. would love to get back up to Island park and do some fishing up there !

I have always done well with brooks on the east bank where it cuts back into the cove... but big rainbows and cut throats can pop up anywhere any time in the spring ... fish those big lures slow and you will catch some.

I am thinking a $10,000 fine for every mile shown on the odometer of every atv/utv owned by the fools ....

Never too cold once the ice is melted ..... Late March through April can be awesome if you have open water for casting you are all good ... If you are looking for some big ones try putting salmon eggs on the barbs of the rear hook of a Rapala Countdown minnow or yo-zuri crystal minnow .... if you think they are holding closer to bottom use a floating version of either lure with a 2-3 feet of leader and weight in front of leader to get it down while letting the lure float off bottom .... p.s. do not be afraid to use the bigger lures

I hope they do it right and not only build a case with what the OP has , but actually taking the time to catch him in the act ... I would then like to see him get the book thrown at him and to become the poster child for why breaking the laws does not pay in the long run , only COSTS ...

Winchester Long Beard XR in 3 1/2 5 or 6 with full turkey choke .... I know carlsons makes a specific long beard xr full turkey choke that I know a few using and they love them

I think he has gone up 40 posts since he started this thread .... only 926 to go

as other said , just keep replying and posting ... sure there are enough old threads you could do a one word response of "Cool" and become premier

Thanks... Welcome... and Good Luck on your Draw and Hunt

Caller # 12,000 earns his or her Draw Results !

Thanks for adding the link .... I had both open and copied and pasted the wrong the one .... p.s. Sour I did not put any current population numbers for yellowstone ... and please share the published articles you have that show the national lows in the early 1920's are different than what I read and paraphrased ....

Congrats and Blessings to all your family and new Daughter ...

I use to love when the Cubs came to visit so I could poke fun at Sammy SO-SO .... now days he is retired and a much paler version of his former self...

^^^^^^^ What he said^^^^^^^^ and get your speedo gear as the police these days do not seem as nice about using the excuse I just lifted my truck and put on bigger tires ....

Had to buy 7th bonus point this year since I am dealing with my mom being in hospital for over 8 months now... But will Be on a few hunts with family one 23 Bull the other two cow hunts 3c

heck's Gate is some great wilderness and varied in terrain majority pretty rough.... depending on which way you are going to head out or what trails you choose to take water can be found .... Monsoons can bring some serious water down Tonto Creek and side creeks so be prepared to change your route if bad weather comes... you should not see many others after a mile or two... as with any unit get a mile or two from the roads and you lose 90% of hunters ... I think you can still get a detailed guide on the trails and rules of that area at the Payson Ranger Station... Good Luck

you should know by the 17th ...

The gene pool on the res is no different than the rest of the state ... Elk Bulls start Breeding in as early as their second year... An elk takes 8-12 years to reach it peak growth and size ... that means any 375" + bull has possibly bred for 6-10 years .... nutrition from one year to the next can account from 5 - 15% reduction in antler growth ... So a 350 class bull may have pushed 375 if there were nutrition factors ... the Res has the quality because they limit, big time, the number of trophy Bulls harvested while culling out much of the lesser quality bulls during the rag horn hunts ... This is a practice, Hunters can do without regulations if they took it upon themselves, but too many these days want a 375 plus or nothing ... As a population increases so does the quality of nutrition over time you get more Elk with less antler growth .... herd management is based on Population versus range versus handling capacity for nutrition to ensure the best breeding and birthing season after season... Tag numbers are based off of what should be harvested to meet the goals ... G&F does not treat 375 class bulls different than a spike ... it is a populations impact on a range that can either help or hinder through nutrition limitations which change year to year based on climatic conditions and rainfall.... Genetics alone do not make giants in the 375 class and above , no matter what you like to think ... it is all factors working together that produce quality... It is far to common anymore for people to point the finger and blame someone else versus themselves..... Keep that in mind next time you are passing up 340- 350 bulls or heck even a a bull that visually shows they are lacking in genetics ... only to say I did not take my Bull this year because I could not find one over 375 ( and of course that is where you blame G&F all over again)

LMAO @ thinking 3c does not have any big bulls anymore .... and it Is not G&F killing them off it is trophy hunters and guides always looking for the biggest Bulls ... It takes an Elk 8 -12 years to reach peak growth and size ... there is a lot going on during those 8 -12 years ... there are still Big Bulls in 3c , do they cross the fence line a lot .. yes they do , but to say they are gone is laughable... with that said cull some of those rag horns out there .. it only helps in the long run !

giving the honor to game and fish for having big animals? Hahaha that's the funniest thing I've heard all year. We have big animals because of genetics. Ignorance at its best right there .... There are many reasons besides genetics as to why there are better quality animals in some states versus others ... herd management is a big one and that comes down to tags and game and fish .... Range is another and game and fish has been sponsoring for decades projects with other organizations as well as by themselves ways to ensure water catchments in various units to maximize the range of our animals. The scary part is that it could even be better and you only need look at the minor variations of the WMAT and how they manage the herds that constantly produce monsters... Those rag horn hunts do a lot to cull the population and ensure quality Bulls year after year. Talk to any Elk hunter in the nation and they will tell you if you want quantity look at places like NM and Colorado ... If you want Quality look at AZ. For anyone to deny that our G&F has nothing to do with that shows pure ignorance about how wildlife management works. Maybe you did not know less than 100 years ago there were no Elk in AZ ... And only about 90,000 in the entire country ... http://www.gf.state.az.us/h_f/game_elk.shtml https://www.elks.org/lodges/LodgePages.cfm?LodgeNumber=536&ID=368

Actually Doing this during the application process, as much as many hate the bugs ( and that is life on the internet, do not like it go back to paper only,) is actually very smart. #1 They get a greater number of guys signing up faster #2 They get them all signing up at same time allowing to see server loads and capacity #3 They get a Bunch of Beta testers who will whine so loud about every glitch and bug they see, the programmers can adress them more quickly #4 I am hoping for Some, they get great amusment reading forums like this and listening to Grown men cry and whine! p.s. Going out to Lark, you are a funny guy and while you may feel I have all the answers I do not! But if I were in charge and have read half the crap posted on CWT about G&F over the last 10 years .... I would go back to the old way of sending Pink Cards and Permits, even cutting out the phone results.....

Very Cool .. Hope to catch some images

It is one thing to say man it Really sucks another weekend has to go by without me knowing what unit I should drive to in order to plan... It is another thing to constantly disparage and beat down the people trying to do their jobs... I know if I worked for the game and fish I would have a real sour opinion of many of many of the individuals that make up the CWT community... I see so many talking about their religion and which churches they go to (my church is mother nature and the outdoors) but so many of the same people show no temperance while sitting in judgement and disparaging others that are trying to do their jobs. The funny part is, very often, Greed( as in individual opportunity) is the most often the motivation. Can anyone say Hypocrite ?