Red Sparky

Exactly how I felt during the O.J. case. He carried a pig skin, nothing like our military or first responders go through but he was called a "hero". Keep the term hero for those that deserve it.

I didn't even have to turn my laptop vertically to see it

I tried to explain it the best I can with the information given in the original post. There are a lot of variables that go into a populations dynamic so it is just more than winter range/feed. If you have a link to the scientific study by the biologist I would love to read it. I have weird reading interest and I love biology.

Then you should understand it is not based on winter feed but rather spring and summer feed. Why else would they be worried about the yearlings only being 90 pounds. It is about the whole habitat health, winter included. It is a government agency so why try to figure it out. Like it or not they are going to do what they want, hopefully with good science behind it.

The thing you have to remember is the three years is leading up to the peak of the sine wave. So if you see the trend you increase doe tags to prevent the herd from hitting the peak and having mass die offs. The same is true on the other side of the spectrum. If you have mass die offs from EHD or CWD, as examples, the herd may fall way below the baseline and take years to recover. We as hunters are to help maintain a healthy herd the habitat can sustain, the baseline. Wildlife is a renewable resource and is managed as such. The amount of tags issued are based on harvesting excess animals without taking too much. It is all based on the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation. Here is a direct quote from the Hunter-ed.com Today's Hunter book pg. 82 Lessons in Wildlife Management " In the early 1900's for example, wildlife managers attempted to preserve a mule deer herd in the remote Kaibab Plateau of Arizona. Hunting was banned, and predators were destroyed. The result was severe overpopulation, habitat destruction, and mass starvation. The Kaibab Plateau was opened to hunting in 1929, which brought the population into balance with the habitat. Today a large, healthy herd of mule deer inhabits the area." So it may not make sense but is the best way to maintain a healthy herd of animals.

It all goes to management and carrying capacity of the range. If the deer are struggling going into the winter then you increase doe tags. The remaining animals are not struggling and survive the winter better due to less competition for food sources. So if the animals are entering the winter in the conditions stated that means the herd is getting too big for the habitat to sustain it. Once the deer are passed the conditions stated that means the habitat can support more animals. You decrease doe tags to increase the herd. By increasing/decreasing doe tags it is easier to bring the herds back as one buck can breed many does. The nice thing is it is a three year study rather than yearly. That time frame gives enough time to effectively manage the herds. Not knee jerk reactions and not too long to have a major die off. Edit to add: Think of it as a sine wave. You have a baseline and when the herd is at the top, low yearling weights, poor animal condition,etc., the habitat will not support it. You increase doe tags to come closer to the baseline. Now when the herd is at the bottom below the baseline, great yearling weight, good animal health,etc., you decrease doe tags to allow the herd to grow back to the baseline or above.

Every time I post there is a picture of a 300"+ elk. Net 308" as a 5x6, if he would have had the 6th point on his right side he would be around 340". Oh wait that was in NM and not Co. so I guess he don't count. On the other hand though he was the first bull I saw. So can we start a new post called the outhouse to see whose is bigger and can aim farther and get back to the purpose of this post?

PWRGUY----Here is some light reading specifically for Colorado elk and muzzle loaders. I do not know any of these guys but it might help you some. http://forum.eastmans.com/showthread.php/4526-Best-muzzleloader-bullet-for-elk

Heat? I just turned on my swamp cooler on Friday when it hit 80 degrees.

One other thing is to try sabots to see if it is truly a QLA problem or if it is rifling twist issues with the full diameter conicals. If you buy a box of 240 grn. XTP's with about 80 grains of powder those should group reasonable well if it is not a QLA problem. You can do that later after getting the other problem with the conicals fixed. The other thing that has not been addressed is have you checked to make sure the open sights are tightened down? Torque the screws and make sure they have loc-tite on them.

I won't say much about the QLA except I have never had a problem with mine. Unless you consider better accuracy a problem. The problem you seem to be having is one I had similar to buying cast lead bullets for sabots. I bough some one time that were not .4295-.430 and they did not fit tight in the sabot so they skipped down the barrel. The thing to remember is muzzle loaders are individualized more so than regular rifles. What works for one may not be the best for another. You have a general starting point but need to fine tune to get the best accuracy out of each individual rifle. Here is an interesting article to read but I have never tried these bullets and I think you need to cut the tip off to make them legal in Colorado. http://www.chuckhawks.com/hornady_FPB.htm P.S. The T/C Maxi Hunters are geared more towards deer where the Maxi Balls are more for elk.

I am shooting about 10 rounds before I clean. I have a T/C ThunderHawk I bought new in 1997 when I replaced the CVA side lock. Scopes were made legal here so I put a cheap Tasco 4X Pronghorn on it and it has not changed zero yet. The only firearm I can shoot accurately with open sights are my handguns at handgun distances. It is an inline that still uses #11 caps rather than 209 primers. I only use T/C #13 and bore butter to clean. I can call my first shot about every time from a clean barrel, 6" high and 6" to the right, then it settles down. Shooting the maxi balls I cast through the 1:28 twist I have to load 70 volume grains of Pyrodex RS and the groups open up to about 3" at 100 yards. Normally for sabots I use Pyrodex P, you have to research it but P can be used up to a .50 muzzle loader. I know everybody says use BH 209 but I would try Pyrodex RS with a full bore bullet. It is dirtier to shoot but cheaper to try than a new barrel. All the guys I know that shoot full bore bullets still use it or real black powder if they can find it but use BH 209 for sabots. Try to find a pure lead bullet that has a hollow base as the expanding gases flare out the base to help engage the rifling and create a gas seal. I have heard great things about the T/C maxi hunters but have not tried them myself. I always apply more bore butter to a full bore bullet even if they come pre-lubed. You can even try a felt wad between the powder and bullet. I was sent Power Belts to evaluate once. I tried them but never used them for hunting. The reason is I was shooting 240 grain XTP's for my deer loads and the Power Belts grouped great but 4" low and 6" to the left of where the XTP's were sighted in for. In both the 1:48 and 1:28 twist rifles so I can't explain that one. If you do replace the barrel try to get a 1:48 twist as my side lock had no problem shooting maxi balls with about 100 grains volume of Pyrodex RS. It also shot 240 grn XTP's well in sabots. The only reason I don't use the side lock for hunting anymore is with my eyesight. I am extremely near sighted, a scope is more ethical for me to place a good shot. I have killed deer with it but passed up more shots than taken due to the fact I was uncomfortable with the open sights and didn't want to injure an animal and not recover it. Just my limitations, 4" groups at 100 yards open sights from a sandbag bench rest, and not a reflection on anybody else's hunting abilities.

I definitely would not cut off the QLA. I have it on my T/C and the whole point is to start the projectile square with the rifling in the barrel. It is oversized and your bullet should drop down about 1/2" and be square to the rifling. I mainly shoot sabots and a scope here in NM but have tried a few full size bullets. I started ML hunting casting my own Maxi-ball bullets with pure lead. That was with a 1:48 twist St. Louis Hawken by CVA. I would try a few things first. First is to make sure you use consistent pressure with the ramrod when seating bullets. Using masking tape, or color coded electricians tape, pour a powder charge down the barrel and measure it on the ramrod. Then add the length of the bullet so you should have an idea of where the ramrod is when fully seated. Don't forget the ramrod will stick farther out of the barrel with the bullet so make sure you mark the correct side. It should seat the same each time. Also with my T/C it shoots better with a fouled barrel. The first shot will be 4" off of where my groups are. The other thing is to go to the BP substitute that you are using for min. and max. loads. I only load by volume rather than weight so start out at min. and work up by 10 grains at a time. I admit I shoot Pyrodex P out of my .50 but I have had these loads for 20 years and figure if it ain't broke don't fix it. Once again I load VOLUME not weight. Once you find your most accurate load play with the amount of powder by five grains. If using BH 209 then it might be 2 grains weight not volume but I am not sure. The loads I am using are not legal in Co. but with 250 Hornady SST or T/C ShockWaves I shoot <1" groups at 100 yards I have found my most consistent loads below maximum. I have never shot a 150 grain volume weight of powder. I have the 1:28 twist barrel in my T/C and I think the same in my daughters CVA. If you get the lead bullets moving too fast it will strip past the rifling and you lose accuracy. To get my daughter shooting I was using round balls with about 40 grains of powder and that twist rate is not for round balls but I had her shooting 4" groups at 100 yards. Then we moved to sabots and she was shooting 1" groups at 100 yards. Above all else if you are going to cut the QLA off the barrel and have it re-crowned contact me and I will buy it from you and buy you a different ML. I need to buy my younger daughter a ML anyhow.

The other thing is both my girls started out with single shots. No follow up shots so they had to make the first one count. Slowed them down when they went bolt actions as they always make the first shot count.

I had one like that. You don't have to total it and don't have to have a salvage title. What I did was had insurance company pay about $100 less than the total value and I fixed it myself. The other insurance company will want to fix it for the least amount possible and when you threaten lawyers and lawsuit you tend to get your way. Looking at it I have seen used beds going for about $250-300 and I would just change the bed and have it painted. I had no cab damage and the frame and axle were fine. Then I took my damaged bed and made a trailer. It looks like a low velocity impact to me, less than 20MPH, and body damage only.

Don't know how the process works in Az. but here we can cancel any application before the draw. So if we make a mistake we cancel and reapply as long as it is before the deadline date. The cost is the non refundable application fee of $13. Maybe you have to do that rather than try to fix the other one. There should be a way to fix mistakes.

The other thing is to act like adults. Last year I was sitting in a saddle about 3PM on a road that dead ended. I was in a good ambush spot and a hunter on a 4 wheeler didn't know I was there. The four wheeler went by and stopped about 200 yards from me over the crest of the saddle. The parked four wheeler in my mind just messed up my saddle ambush. I waited about 20 minutes then went looking for the other hunter since there was plenty of time before sundown. I met the other hunter at the end of the road by a guzzler. It was about 1/2 mile from where he left the four wheeler. We talked and I found out he was leaving before the hunt ended. He gave me good directions to find a place for elk and I let him sit the guzzler until he left. I was in elk each day and even saw some coues at 30 yards. Then I hunted the guzzler a few times and saw three cow elk and a bear. He would stop by camp briefly and we would exchange information about what we had seen each day. Now we each could have been trying to beat each other to the water source. I think we both had a much more enjoyable hunt by not having to do that. There were about 4 game cams on that water source but we were the only two hunting it during that hunt, and neither of us had put up a game cam.

Thank you to all those past and present! My father in Law's marker, unfortunately I don't have any of my uncles.

I only have three classes of bulls I shoot. 1) Legal bull 2) Big bull 3) OMG HUGE

Not sure it is a single reed call but I use the Primos Sonic Dome, the blue one. I can project with it and when they get in close I can work it with my mouth closed to soften it. The wife and kids hate it from about July on it seems I always have it in my mouth if I have an elk tag that year.

That is a pretty bear. Would look prettier as a rug.

No personal experience but I did watch a show where the PD was looking for a new sniper round, .308 Win vs. .300 Blackout. One test was had to shoot through drivers and passengers side glass on a car at 50 yards and then hit an electrical box to take out power after another 50 yards. .300 Blackout didn't make it out of the car. Another test was shooting a padlock off a gate. The .300 Blackout won that one due to the fact it took out the lock but did not do downrange damage. I hear the positive is the subsonic and suppression of the round.

You can definitely see the genetics in that herd. B-I-L and Jody's bulls look identical on the right antler, left as you look at the picture. Brothers or related somewhere down the line. Nice bulls!

Bow set up 30" draw length, 65-70LB draw weight. Arrows Carbon Express 340's 29" with 100 grain Slick Trick Magnums. Edit: Mayhem Hunters

I would say #3 based on the thirds, but I just look for a legal elk.