34a36b

Sounds like Pima County!

Happy New Year everyone, I think one thing we can agree on is NO to the unprecedented Obama amnesty sham. I hope everyone is able to enjoy an extra day off or two!

300ultramag., that sounds different than how I interpreted you before. It sounded like the whole town would get sick and suffer from a high rate of cancer, but for the poor and elderly, that is probably their fate, regardless if they live in a trailer park in Superior or South Phoenix. Maybe they will have the money to leave once their property values recover when workers want to move nearby and get a place to live. Tons of poor folks moved to Bisbee, Ajo, Jerome and Superior once the mines closed and land values collapsed. The miners who tramped to the next mine could afford to sell for pennies because they had good jobs to move to.

Maybe so, but that was just a month or so ago. This deal has been in the works for many years now. And we do hire legal immigrants, I work with Mexicans, Japanese, Africans, Canadians because so few Americans are now qualified. And you know what, they make just as much as I do, live in nice homes, buy products, support or economy etc. They're not paid less. We can't hire people who can't communicate well, it's too much of a liability. Hardly any of our labor pool are foreign born, unless they are fluent in written/spoken English. Go visit a mine Pard!

Ctafoya is right, we need it and can and should produce more here.... But our copper may still go to China. it goes to a trading house, and people buy from it as needed. Just because China has the highest demand, doesn't negate the fact that we are a net importer. We can't say American's only! Maybe someday more will stay here, but if we're not making it, that will never happen. And if you want to talk about rape, every pound of copper mined elsewhere has an infinitely higher cost on the environment and human rights. It's a fact. I'm not ok with putting the yoke of our environmental burden on the backs of the third world, not when we have the ability to do it cleaner here. Let's not sweep our environmental costs under the third world rug. We lead the way in environmental technologies - if we export mining overseas, who will do the R&D and lead the way? China? hardly...

Import more copper than we make that is. But even if we made 100% of the copper we consume, it will never all stay here. You make contracts with customers - you don't break contracts so you can just sell it to an American. Most of it is paper trade anyway... Now that is a joke.... And it's no joke that "fair trade" is a progressive concept!

We mine in other countries - it's a global economy. We mine there, they mine here. We ship to China, Chile ships to USA, etc. etc. We import more than we make, but the more we make won't necessarily stay here. Right now we are a net exporter of oil, yet we still import oil. It's a commodity, and you're preaching economics?? Try reading up on mineral economics...

You are out of touch, we hire qualified, legal people.

I've worked at a dozen mines for 15 years and never worked with an illegal immigrant. What do you do for a living Snapshot?

"fair trade" sounds like progressive speak to me. They're never against capitalism, or mining, just this current policy or particular project. But I have never seen any green organization endorse any mine, even though they're not against mining... I'd like to ask the doctor what studies show that mining towns like Superior have a higher cancer rate for non-smokers than a comparable community without a mine? I am unaware of any, well maybe Green organizations have made some biased ones, but what about the AMA? This isn't the 19th century - visit a mine sometime to see what the conditions truly are, and I'll visit a cancer center and read some studies. Yes, nobody is held captive in mining towns. I know a very active Anti-mining person who "lives in fear because of the air and water they breathe", yet after testifying this for years, they moved from one NM mining town (without any proposed projects) to comparable climate here in AZ next to a mining project (so they can join the fray as "an impacted resident" - boo hoo). If they lived in fear, why didn't they move to the 99.9% of the rest of the country that doesn't have mines? If they wants to campaign against mining, God bless 'em, but they can do that in "mine free" air and water and still have the same access to meetings and websites. it's an act. They knew they were moving to an active mine that has never shut down since starting in the 50's unlike most other mines. So the mine wasn't "inactive" at the time... The mines are the dominant land form!

RE: Desert Bull comments about our "savior" McCain I'm actually surprised McCain is supporting a project favored by the Tea Party. Progressive McCain sides with the progressive greens a lot more than any of the Tea Party candidates do.

Pretty cool! Membership has its benefits. Great job Tarrandjr!!

This past fall my dad was metal detecting near box canyon, in Santa Rita mts south of Tucson. If you can identify, contact me. He also does this for a fee and has found quite a few nice engagement rings around Tucson.

Re: what 1ugly dude wrote: True, there are 3 tough challenges in deep mining. I can't remember all three (one is heat, the other is seismic rock bursts because of the high ground pressures that deep). This mine will be the first time all 3 will be encountered... Sorry to hear that Antmo23. We used to hunt 36b about 2 hrs away because of the drug runners and bandits, and now hunt 34a about 20 minutes away. lol, now that I think about it, I'd probably be less bitter if we lost our 3 generation hunt area because of a legal billion dollar industry, rather than an illegal billion dollar industry. ;-)

RE: DesertBull's last comment on page 1 Yes there are American mining companies who mine copper in AZ, but there are no American mining companies who own the ore body in Superior. Well, it used to be owned by an American mining company, but they got bought out. Think of it as home ownership. Once you buy a house, I can't simply go and offer the mortgage company more money and get it out from under you. As long as you're living up to your obligations, you are protected by a contract. At least that is the way it has worked for 200 years, but maybe that is another surprise change thanks to the Affordable Care Act... I wouldn't want to buy (or trade for a vacant lot next to your house). You may if you have a small lot and want to build a workshop or garage next door (which is partly the purpose for the mining companies land swap). And another benefit to them is it's a buffer so someone else doesn't move next door and then complain. No they aren't being selected to do the land swap because they have deeper pockets than an American company. No American mining company has interest in the property so none aren't eager to do a land swap for Oak Flats. And yes the company is doing the trade because they think the land swap is worth a lot more than what they are offering. Ford sold me my truck because they thought the price was worth the cost and effort to build the truck. I didn't think I was getting screwed, I thought the price asked was worth the benefit of having the truck... They are swapping rare riparian habitat for relatively common scrub oak land. For our purposes (an appreciation for beautiful, unique habitat), we are getting a good deal. For their purposes, they get a buffer and flexibility to line out their project how they best think it should be (regardless if the land is appraised for much less than the land they're offering). A heck of a great deal for them. Do we kill the deal because they get a proportionally bigger benefit from the swap than we do? The agencies are eager to do the deal because they get lands they are parcels they are excited about. I could care less, so should I be able to stop the deal because I'm not getting a few bucks under the table? If we hold Oak Flats, we are unable to capitalize on Resolutions planned use because we don't hold the mineral rights - they do. But if we take the deal, we can get a >2:1 land holding. If I sell balls to a juggler, do I demand they pay more because they plan to make money from my product? A good deal doesn't always mean each person gets the same outcome. I still am getting a good deal whether the ball gathers dust or generates income for the buyer. Do I refuse to sell to a hunter because I think they are trying to shoot my best friend who is a deer? I apparently can't if it's a gay hunter... I'd also like to point out that there is an American company that has been trying to do a land swap since 1994 at the Ray mine. ASARCO got the deal approved, was then sued and the swap upheld. Appealed again, and hopefully it will be resolved soon. Asarco also once owned Rosemont, and tried to swap for land around that project, and was stalled. Asarco eventually went bankrupt and got bought by Mexico. Perhaps if they weren't harassed in court for every little business decision, by Green NGOs who are partially funded by my tax dollars, they may still be the American company that started mining copper since before Statehood... Before I go off on another tangent, I'll simply say, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Greens are by far more threatening to hunting than mining companies. Mining companies are allowed to explore and claim less and less land each year. Greens however keep getting more and more powerful and deeper engrained in our schools and entertainment industry. And while some of them are hunters and pro-gun, they are a minority. We need to have rule of law. If people don't like the laws, they need to change the laws by electing representatives. We shouldn't instead demand our public officials bend the rules by fiat. Because at some point we will be abused when we are in the minority, regardless if the law is on our side. Rule of law is what separates us from Banana Republics. Now if McCain and the mining company are doing something illegal, then that is at their peril. Remember Rick Renzi? Heck, McCain has a lot of enemies, so if he's doing something dirty, odds are he'll get caught, and we'll be glad he got involved! Does a kid graduating High School benefit any less because the deal is tainted if he is can find work without having to move to Texas? Sorry for the rant and thanks for reading. I don't mean this to be demeaning, and I'm not trying to insult anyone. Just trying to give an impassioned call to arms - we can't rely on most media outlets to give a fair accounting. Their side lies, some give impartial facts, but few go out of their way to point out the lies and misinformation... I don't benefit from this other than getting 6 hours sleep tonight, but if I don't point out what I know, who will? Again, I work at a mine, so there is probably some subconscious satisfaction and bias to promote mining in general. So take it for what it is worth. Do a little more digging (no pun intended) and think what ye will. :-) Happy hunting!