Snapshot

I know what you mean about some of the riff raff up in the Springerville/St Johns area. In the summer of 2007 I went to Becker lake early one mornig to go flyfishing and someone had dumped around twentyto thirty dead jackrabbits into the water at the boat ramp and dozens of busted beer bottles all over. The G&F officer came to clean it up, and I heard that some individuals were retaliating because they banned the use of bait on the lake, and these same people do not like the G&F personnel, and have committed numerous crimes and have even made death threats. Just what I was told by a local.

I'm 26, hey u guys stop pokin at me or I'm tellin !!! BTW what was ur pet dinosaurs name? , SIR . Its all in good fun bro My pet dino is Barnie, and don't call me sir, I work for a livin!

I had it happen a few years ago with an elk application in AZ, and a New Mexico deer draw.

R.I.P, there Zwickey, may the happy hunting grounds be good to you!

Its those danged mechanical broadheads!

The website was down? I didn't even notice! , I thought that maybe Amanda got mad at me and blocked my access. :lol:

I will send you a little info via P.M. I have taken 4 mulies down there over the years, but it is not what it used to be. Most of the best hunting is on or around private land, and occasionally a nice buck or two. There are spots on public land, just as long as your expectations are not set to high.

Happy birthday! But I think you need to change that name to "Willhuntformuledeer" Have a good one bro!

You were not born yet? What, are you like 16 years old ? Young whipper snappers! Nice vintage photo. I graduated high school that year, and I was a mullet head

I agree with Amanda. Even though the rut does not hit its peak in December, the cooler weather is much better to hunt in, and the bucks are more active for longer periods . October is nice because you get the first crack at them, but its not much fun climbing a mountain when its hot, and the deer seem to bed up earlier. But if the deer are there in December, they are there in October. Very little hunting pressure is a huge plus.

Regardless of the unspeakable terrors roaming the area , sounds like you gals had a great time. Great place to spend some quality time.

Man, that dude is freaky big. I hope you get him.

Well, I for one will sleep better at night, knowing Bullwidgeon is clean, and that you are back to set the record straight.....

Bill, What you said makes sense. I am trying to get a handle on the Biologic/Conservation side of things. The particular area I hunt down there (on occasion) is not overrun with immature deer, its just what I see being harvested. There is nothing wrong with taking a meat buck. I harvested a fat 2x 3 mulie down there in 2005 with my Dad. It was the only buck we saw in 4 days of hunting. I took the buck over to Sunsites to have it checked at the CWD check station and chatted with the WM while he cut the needed glands from the buck. Back at camp the next day, a Game and Fish officer stopped by and we got to talking about deer hunting and he showed me a digital picture on his camera of a very nice buck shot down by Bisbee opening day (on private land), but he said that he does not see many mature deer coming from public land in 30B on the general rifle hunts, there are some, he said, but not many. Maybe I should go down there in January sometime and see what can be found during the rut? So it seems to me that most of the breeding age bucks are taking refuge on private or inaccessible land, and its the young deer that are mostly being harvested. What happens if the older age class starts to dissapear? Are there any good books out there on deer biology /management, I Would be interested in reading it.

Bill, I can certainly relate to the concerns on the issue you mentioned above. A perfect example of this is down in unit 30B, a unit that always goes undersubscribed in the draw, and for good reason. Back in the 70', my dad and I hunted down there for a few years and the Mule deer hunting was pretty good, with good bucks to be had. Over the years I have always put 30B as my 3-5th choice simply for the fact that I know the area, and I had alot of good times there as a kid, there are still bucks to be had with a little savvy and hard work. The big issue down there is sub-developments, private land, and access problems, which have seriously condensed the hunters into smaller areas, and it has created areas that are being overhunted. The success rates are average or below most of the time, but the majority of the deer I see, and the ones that I see harvested by others, are mostly immature deer. I guess I simply do not understand why more tags are issued, and an extra hunt added to places like this, that, in my opinion, simply can not support the extra pressure. I understand the "opportunity" side of things, especially for the younger generation of hunters. I do not see any long term benefit coming from a unit that has mostly 70-80 pound spikes and fork horns running around. Lack of access compounds the problem. Most of the good mule deer hunting in 30B is on private land, or blocked by private land. Some of the ranches around the state also sell off sections of land, which in turn get sold off as 30- 40 acre Ranchettes and ranch land that was once accessible (or not) will never be again. Str8shot, Sorry to Jack your thread bro! But it always happens with these kind of topics.

" Where did those $100 bills lying on the ground come from"?

Vey nice indeed!

My point is it does not always have to always "boil down to a few animals" if good minds get together and work on the real problem. Instead of worrying about bonus points and methods to decide who gets to hunt, we need to learn why reproduction and survival rates on Arizona's deer are so low and then do something about it. As for the "lots of hunters wanting them", twice as many hunters as we now have (or more) would be no problem in a state as large as Arizona if all the locks and no trespassing signs that block our entry to state, BLM and forest service land were removed. Forget "how they rig up the draw." A lottery wouldn't be needed if we had more deer. Other reasons to get outdoors are fine, but deer hunting itself is threatened if we continue to tell thousands of would-be hunters to stay home. Bill Quimby Absolutely right! The draw system is a minor issue compared to the future of the game animals.

Tommy, The area I will be hunting, will be below the rim. I will send you a P.M before I go hunting and get your phone#. I can't get cell phone signal in that unit except up by Alpine. The last time I hunted elk up there in 2005, I talked to some wranglers up the road aways and they said around $200 to pack out an elk depending on how far in it was. But they did not have to drive very far with the horse trailer, so you would consider your gas expense and at least a good hourly rate for yourself to make it worthwhile. The November Archery bull hunt is November 13-26, the general rifle hunt starts right after that. I will be up there for the 2 full weeks, if my plan holds together. In that country, I rarely get more than 5 miles from a road or trailhead.

I would love to get out for a few days of bear hunting, but I can't right now. I will have to do my bear hunting during deer/elk season, as long as the harvest objectives have not been met.

Its a great idea, especially helpful for us older guys with bad backs If I am lucky enough to get a bull on my November archery hunt in unit 27, I will certainly look for someone with horses in the vicinty that would pack it out for a fee, depending on cost? Shooting a bull in that country even 2 or 3 miles from the nearest road creates a tremendous chore in getting him out before any meat spoilage occurs. It can take one man, 2 days or more, of hardwork to pack out an elk in that country depending on distance.

I was 16 when I shot my first buck in unit 30B. An average 3x3 mule deer. I had walked up over a small rise and a buck and doe were coming up the same rise in the opposite direction when we saw each other at about 40 yards. I don't know who was more surprised, me or that buck. It took me a few years to get that first buck.

Some years back, a reliable source told me of a huge whietail that they saw on a backpacking trip in the Rincon mountains east of Tucson. The buck was seen at almost 9000' in elevation by Helen's Dome up in the black timber.

Thats a tough question to answer. The World record mule deer and CouesWhitetail have stood for quite awhile. The Northern whitetail record was broken some years back, and elk records are broken more often than deer. I would have to say no in the United States, maybe from mexico? I do believe the genetics are still there in some areas?. Look at the world record bow kill taken 7-8 years ago, it was taken, I believe, in the same general area as the Rifle Record in 34A. If there is a world record out there I feel it would probably be in a unit that has areas that do not see any or very few hunters. With the amount of serious and hardcore trophy hunters that are hunting harder and farther into difficult areas, alot of great bucks are being killed before they can ever reach, if possible, world record status. Genetics are a big factor in antler size, a big buck can live its whole life and die of old age, and never grow antlers big enough to beat the world record. But if the genetics are there.......? I think There are bucks that have been killed that are bigger, but because of scoring deductions they don't make the grade.? I have heard rumor of big Coues bucks living in areas of heavy timber. These bucks would be almost impssible to glass up, and would require skilled still hunting or a good stand. Who's to say that there is not a potential world record in some remote heavily timbered area? Just a thought! SCORE: 144 1/8 LOCATION: Pima County, AZ HUNTER: Ed Stockwell OWNER: Barbara Stockwell DATE: 1953 KEY MEASUREMENTS: Length of main beam: Right 20 2/8 - Left 20 5/8 Inside spread: 15 3/8 Circ. of smallest place between burr and first point: Right 5 4/8 - Left 5 6/8 Number of points: Right 5 - Left 5

Very nice pics/video! Good rain storms have been pretty scarce down here so far.