azelkhunter69

You can try sneaking in on them. You may have better luck trying to intercept them though. If you know where they are headed, get there before they do and wait.

Congrats to you and your dad. Making memories with your dad outweighs the score of any elk. Especially when they start getting older. I will be in the woods in a little over a week with my 2 boys and my dad on the boys muzzleloader cow hunt. My dad just turned 76. I can't wait. Congrats again, may you enjoy many more hunts with your dad.

I agree, don't panic. It gets better as the season goes along. It's also supposed to rain and get cooler in the middle of the week. That will help also. Keep after them, you'll get your chance.

The new forest road management plan. If you don't have one you should get the new official map as to what is an open road. The new rules don't require a closed sign on a road to be closed. The road needs to be on the map as open to be open. That's how I understand it. Maps are free at the office or call them for one. No sign is a bunch of garbage in my opinion. My 2 favorite roads have gates on them that remain open but are closed according to the map. If you don't want me in there close the gate that's already there! Another ridiculous part is when you have to pack an elk 2 miles down a perfectly good road because forest service says it's closed. OUTRAGEOUS! <end rant> Wasn't there a bylaw where you could drive in to retrieve game on a closed road? But only to retrieve it? I could have sworn i saw something but could be wrong. As I understand it, the rule is, you can only drive up to 1 mile off of an "open road" to retrieve an elk. Some units you can't even do that, you have to pack it out. In unit 8 where I like to hunt some roads have closed signs on them and some don't. I know for a fact there are a couple roads that get a lot of use that are technically closed. They don't have signs on them so people keep using them. It would be nice if they would take the time to put "closed" signs on all the roads that are closed. Game and Fish has more or less said they won't enforce the rules because they are different from unit to unit, forest to forest which confuses people. This is the first I have heard of forest service guys handing out tickets. The rules have been in place for a couple years now, maybe they figured that was enough of a grace period and started ticketing people?

Where I was in Unit 8 this past weekend, there were bulls still bugling at 10am and started up again at 5pm Sunday.

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So jealous. Went deer hunting in 8 this weekend. The bulls are bugling, cows are bunched up and weather was good. Sunday there were bulls still bugling at 10am. They started again at 5pm. Wish I could hunt elk every year. Nothing better in my opinion. Think I will "hunt" with a camera this year to try to get my "fix". Good luck to all those lucky tag holders.

8 Archery

Also back to the topic at hand...I have never hunted antelope with a bow, although it is definitely a goal. I have read about it a lot but I would like some firsthand experience. Do you guys that are successful typically hunt in a blind over water or spot and stalk? Spot and stalk, on the surface seems like it would be very difficult.

I would gladly switch elk...... let the 40 or 50 rifle tags go in the second weekend of Sept and push us back to the end of sept beginning of oct!!!!!!! That would be awesome I would love to hunt when the rut is at its peak!!!!!!! Yeah! When every bull has been called to by a dozen hunters. I'm sure it would be alot easier for you. On the plus side, they wouldn't be running around looking like a pin cushion. Bringing up an old argument. Cuz gun hunters have NEVER wounded an animal, they always drop them where they stand right? Hunters, no matter what tool is chosen, should stick together not blame one another. Just helping the bunny huggers. A long time ago I sounded just like you. My dad had a bad archery experience and influenced my beliefs. As I grew older, I embraced archery hunting and now I love it. I love the challenge. I love the silence, no guns going off, typically less people in the woods, animals acting more naturally. If you have the patience, skill, and the discipline to wait for the right shot, there is no reason why you can't be as successful as someone with a gun. We are all on the same side guys. Good luck to all this Fall.

I have used Rages in the past and didn't care for them because of the blade containment system. The blades kept popping out so I was constantly putting them back into the o-ring. They do shoot just like my field tips though. Last year I shot a massive bodied bull with the Ulmer Edge. He died within 60-70 yards. Far superior to the Rage in my opinion. Their blade containment system works perfectly and they also shoot just like my field tips. I also like how the blades swivel around bone.

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6A is managed for quantity not quality. Has been for years. That being said, there are still good bulls in 6A just as any other unit. Just harder to find. I have always hunted the southern portion. That started when the unit was still split. Southern portion was easier to draw. Seems to be a few less people. If you can hunt the whole season you will experience plenty of time without seeing other hunters. The first weekend is a zoo and after that it dies down. Picks up a little on the second weekend and is dead the last week...my favorite time to hunt. I have hunted 6A and 8 over the last 10 -15 years. Can't get a bull to come to a call in 8 but have had plenty of luck calling in bulls in 6A. The first time I set foot in 6A I had never hunted elk before. Called in a 7x5 and he passed me at 4 yards. I actually looked around for an escape route. Unfortunately, I had a cow tag. Lucky for me after 2 minutes I was surrounded by elk, 5 bulls and 3 cows. I was fortunate enough to shoot one of the cows. 1st elk hunt ever, done by 7:30am. Not bad for a guy that grew up in NY hunting whitetails. I learned quick. My avatar is my wife. The picture was on the cover of the 2012 Elk/Antelope regs. Her first elk. It was in 6A. Muzzleloader season.

http://www.azgfd.gov/h_f/hunt_arizona.shtml looks like they haven't loaded 2013 version yet.

Come up with a magic pill that helps people stay calm, come up with a way to stop the wind, remove all tree branches from the planet, don't let people hunt that don't practice, get rid of bad luck.. You could say a million things. Plain and simple, there are too many variables that you can't control. Unfortunately, there will always be some wounded animals. I'm not pissed at you either but you need to be realistic and realize your "bigger is better" attitude isn't going to solve anything.

AZkiller, I responded to you on the other thread and voiced my opinion that the most important thing is shot placement, regardless of what you are shooting. I firmly believe that, as most do. That said, I get what you are saying. In general terms, bigger gear for for bigger animals. Common sense right? We choose our weapons based on what we are hunting. I 'm not going to shoot rabbits with a .300 Win Mag and at the same time I'm not going to choose to shoot elk with a .22 rimfire even though I'm sure I could kill it if I hit it in the right place. The problem most people have with your argument is that you just can't lump everyone in together and blame "light" archery gear for wounded animals. It has more to do with the person shooting and the situation than it does the gear. There are so many factors that go into choosing what you will be shooting. A young kid or a small woman isn't going to want to get beat up by a .300 Win Mag throwing a 200gr. bullet. They are going to be afraid of it, they will flinch, and they will make a poor shot, possibly resulting in a wounded animal. Bigger is not always better. I think sometimes people go bigger to provide a safety net thinking it will help if they don't make a good shot. What they should do is shoot something they are comfortable with and can shoot accurately. I would have absolutely no hesitation to shoot an elk with a .243 shooting a quality controlled expansion 100gr. bullet. As a matter of fact, my oldest son shot a cow in the neck with .257 Roberts with a 100gr. bullet and she dropped where she stood. Couldn't have killed her any quicker with a .375 H&H. On the flip side, I used to work with a guy that was the self proclaimed "worst hunter in the world" and I couldn't tell you how many elk he wounded with a .300 Win Mag. Once again, shot placement is the key. I know what you really want to talk about is archery gear though. Just wanted to illustrate some points using gun lingo. As far as arrows go, I am probably part of the reason you started this thread because on the other thread I said I am guilty of falling into the "speed game" and going with a light arrow/broadhead combo. Problem is, you don't know how well arrows, broadheads, bullets etc. work until you use them. I was shocked that my broadhead didn't come out the far side when I killed my bull last year. It was a quartering away shot at only 27 yards and I hit him right where I was supposed to. I got both lungs and he died within seconds but I can only assume that the arrow/broadhead didn't go through due to lack of weight. As I said before, I will switch to heavier arrows next time and see what happens. Point is, even using "light" gear, I killed him just as quick as someone shooting a heavier arrow/broadhead because I practiced for months, waited patiently for the right shot, and made a good shot. There is much less room for error with a bow. I wouldn't count on breaking a bulls shoulder with an arrow where I would have the utmost confidence that I could shatter it with a gun. I think it all boils down to patience, knowing your limitations, waiting for the right shot, and being accurate. There's my 2 cents....or as long as this ended up being...my $20.02.

Not sure if you hunt with a gun or are just an anti hunter but the honest response is...for the same reason those hunting with guns "litter the woods with hundreds of injured elk every year". Typically, poor shot placement. Sometimes due to nerves, branches getting the way, wind, or several other reasons. It doesn't matter what you hit them with, if you hit them in the wrong place, you won't recover them. Unfortunately, if you hunt long enough, it happens.

I lost a bull several years ago and it made me sick to my stomach. Nothing worse than losing an animal. The shot was only 25 yards but my arrow hit a branch and deflected down and hit him just a hair low. A couple inches higher and he would have been dead. I have never seen anything like it, he bled like a stuck pig. I could have run down the blood trail in places. I have never seen an animal bleed that much and not die. 2+ miles later, I found where he laid down in a canyon and from there on there was no blood. Just dried up. As far as complete pass throughs and sticking in trees on the other side, I can honestly say I have never had that happen on an elk. I haven't killed a lot of them but I have killed 3 cows and a bull with a bow. The first 2 cows I shot with Muzzy 125gr. 3 blades, the 3rd I killed with a Cabelas Lazor Pro Mag 125gr. 3 blade, and the bull I killed last year with 100gr. Ulmer Edge. 2 of the cows were hit through the ribs and the broadhead went all the way through and stuck out the other side but the arrows didn't go completely through. The cows were all shot with an older bow and 60# draw. As I wrote earlier, the bull last year was hit through the ribs and the broadhead was just under the skin on the far side. And that was at only 27 yards with a 67# draw. I will say though, I don't think the "complete pass through" thing is all that important. In my experience, if you hit them where you are supposed to, elk die quick, usually within sight and definitely within hearing distance. My bull last year went the the farthest of the 4 and that was only 60 -70 yards and I heard him crash. I am guilty of falling into the "speed game" and have a pretty light arrow/broadhead combo. I think that played a big part in the penetration. In the future, I plan on using heavier arrows and I will be curious to see how this affects the penetration. In theory, it should help.

I'll probably give the Ulmer Edge a try as well. Being a newer Mechanical/broadhead it's hard to find a ton of solid information to back them up. The things I like about this broadhead -Field point accuracy to 100 yds -Apply set screw to broadhead and use for practice -Can hit at an angle without deflection because blade swivels. -2 Blades swivel around bones (ribs) to help penetration -1 1/2" cutting diameter, seems perfect -2 blades lock on contact (turns into broadhead on contact). Blades won't unlock (close) after contact -Blades are sharp on backside, to continue cutting if arrow were to fall out -Solid broadhead tip for bone What I wish this broadhead had -3 or 4 blades -Unsure about blades swivel and not swiveling back out because of meat, fur, bone causing blade not to swivel back out. This could possibly turn this broahead into a one blade after contact with bone. Overall it seems like a great broadhead besides a couple concerns. Can anyone who has used the Ulmer Edge give additional information. You can see my original comment on page 2 of this thread. I used the Ulmer Edge last year on a bull. To answer your question about the blades swiveling after hitting bone...my broadhead hit ribs going in and on the far side. The chisel tip was dinged up and one of the blades had a chip in it. When I got the broadhead out, the blades were locked open and it still swivels just like new. I have read about guys saying they look just like new and using them again but mine didn't, and I wouldn't reuse it. As much money as we spend on bows, arrows, tags, gas, etc. what's $10 - $15 for a broadhead? I will just use a new one. I tried Rage 3 blades before these and there is so much more to like about these. The blade retention system is far superior to the Rage. I couldn't put the Rage in my quiver without them opening, I can with the Edge. If I bumped the Rage on anything, the blades were constantly opening. Hope this helps a little.

I killed my bull last year using the Ulmer Edge. I shoot a 67# draw and I hit him at 27 yards through both lungs. I heard him drop at no more than 70 yards. That being said, the arrow did not go all the way through. It hit ribs on both sides but did not break them, just went in between. The broadhead was just under the skin on the far side. I personally believe that fixed blades penetrate better, but the Ulmer Edge was very accurate and was the first broadhead I have ever shot that flew just like my fieldpoints. My fixed blades were very inconsistent with my new bow so I went with what I was confident with and it worked out just fine.

The rules have become more strict as time goes on. There has even been talk of them closing the ranch to the hunting public in recent years. This is due to the few "slob" hunters that give the rest of us a bad name. They leave trash, don't stay on the roads, don't follow the rules, etc. The Game and Fish has worked hard with the ranch to keep it open because it is such a big part of the unit. That is one reason why they get volunteers every year to do a clean up of the ranch.

Good for her. I hope she realizes how lucky she is. I'm sitting on 14 pts for antelope now.

Unit 8 muzzleloader cow for the 2 boys. Should be a great time for them since the bulls will still be bugling. Not to mention , they haven't been drawn for the last 3 years. My lucky a$$ wife drew 6A muzzleloader bull for the 3rd time in 4 years.

Wow, learn English. "weinning" is actually "whining", "safty" is actually "safety", "none stop" is actually "nonstop". And there is your English lesson for the day.

Like I said, still fun to watch.