daverp

Doesn't sound right. Usually the results page will go down for a while before it comes back up with results, and all results are uploaded and available as soon as they enable the link again. I think your buddy is pulling a fast one on you, or is checking the same results that have been up since last draw. I'm thinking we're not going to see results today.

Last season kicked my azz. Had short notice (2 mo) before I headed out to help the brother on my nephew's hunt, was in pretty pizz poor shape. Didn't realize how bad until I was out climbing and hiking the hills again. I was in denial. Had put on about 35 lbs., and areas I breezed through fairly handily a few years ago were now azz kickers requiring far too many rest breaks to catch my breath and steady my weak legs. By the time the hunt was over, I was SPENT, and barely had energy to get up the stairs when I returned home. Wasn't sure we'd draw a tag this year, but upon my return from last year, decided it didn't matter if we were going deer or elk hunting or not, I needed to get in shape! So, on the "eve" of official results, I know I'm taking the kid chasing bulls this year, and I've already got a decent start to getting back in shape. Started "P90X" a couple months ago, have shed about 10 lbs., and next week I'm picking up running twice a week during the week, and need to find a good, hard hike with elevation I can time myself on during one day on the weekends. Plan on starting out with my usual day pack load, and will keep upping it to 60 lbs or so by the time the season rolls around. This will be in addition to P90X which I will complete 3 times by November. Last goal will be to finally run that half marathon sometime in October that I've had in my sights for the last 5 years...if my knees hold out. Having screwed up a knee running a few years ago, I'm not dead set on that goal, but it would a nice one to reach. I intend to be in phenomenal shape come November. God only knows when a great elk tag will come along again, and I cannot let being out of shape get in the way of a great hunt or possible pack out job. What will you be doing? Anyone ever staged a fitness "comeback" like this for an elk hunt?

Ruger #77 MkII in .270 shooting handloaded 130 gr. Barnes TSX. Leupold VXII 2-7 with low profile elev turret. It's dropped 2 so far...hoping for #3 in November.

Son: Unit 10 Late Rifle Bull. 8bp's. This will be his 2nd elk hunt, first drawn tag. Gave him my 7W bull tag when he was 14. He missed a 250 yd shot on a very nice 6x6 on opening morning that year, and he ended up taking a spike on day 3, as my severely sprained ankle sustained during scouting the week before the season became almost too bad to stand on and he became worried I couldn't continue to hunt. There will hopefully be no injuries this year, and he can finally get that bull of his dreams he missed many years before.

So, the "official" results aren't out yet, but the charge is on the card I put my son's tags on, and he has finally drawn his bull elk tag...the only hunt I put him in for with 8bp's...Unit 10 late rifle. I've hunted and scouted this unit a lot. I took a nice 180" buck out of there a half dozen years ago after patterning him over the summer and fall, and a cow elk 2 hours into my hunt during the Dec. late rifle cow hunt shortly thereafter (so never had a chance to see what the bulls were doing that late in the year). I imagine I've got at least 80 full days in that unit, on the ranch, over the last half dozen years or so, scouting for deer and late rifle cow. BUT, prior to last year, I've never been able to be around for the late rifle bull hunt (never drawn for that hunt). Last year I assisted my brother with my nephew's late rifle bull hunt. Got out there 5 days before the season, hit all my usual places, and saw ONE small 5x5 out of my favorite "super secret spot" 2 days before the hunt (and another 5x5 driving back one night). Did not see another bull. We saw some cows on day 3 of the hunt. Only heard two shots the course of the first 3 days of the hunt before I left to return to work and leave them to finish the hunt alone. There were days I'd walk 4 miles to a spot round trip, and cross but one elk track in the fresh snow. Seeing little sign and fewer elk, after 6 days and on day 2 of the hunt, I decided to more or less abandon this area and headed north a little bit, more toward the flats toward / west of long point. Saw more elk tracks in a day than I saw in the previous 7 or so. Looked like we had a spot. Got completely fogged in one morning, but got 2 days of glassing in, and saw a few cows. Brother and nephew spotted some guys after a bull on an adjacent ridge day I left, but that was it. Wondering if we were a day or two late in that area and the elk had already moved through. Everyone we crossed said the same thing "they were here last week, now they are GONE". There were a few theories....helicopter herding on Babbitt Ranch the day before the season (though still a good ways from us), the snowfall higher up, and the fog and inversion layer that had us socked in for a couple days that had not seen fog like that in the area for 8 years or so. One of the ranchers told my brother a G&F guy had told him they'd headed off toward the flats more N/W from where we were at. For those familiar with the late rifle hunt, is this a usual pattern, or a rare event? I'm already going over maps, buying new maps of areas outside of my usual area, researching and formulating a scout plan. I find it a little hard to believe 4 to 6 inches of snow drove them out of the area that quickly, and there wasn't a ton of pressure up there (though there was some). But something moved them. All that brings me to this....Has anyone observed this there before? Rare, or common occurrence? My plan is to spend Sept thru Nov getting a few solid weeks in scouting out new contingency areas in case my usual spots come up empty again in the scouting the week before the hunt. Should I possibly start scouting way the heck out on the flats? Or just get even more rugged areas? I was extremely confident in my usual areas...moderate terrain, good glassing, usually 3/4 mile to 1.5 miles from the roads, until they came up empty last season. Going to need a plan B in case it happens again.

It's all "luck of the draw", and the luck comes and goes. I've drawn 3 elk tags the last 10 years, and one year I didn't even apply (2 bull tags, 1 cow). Never reached more than 3bp's before I drew a tag. My son on the other hand has just drawn his first elk tag in 10 years of trying for the same hunts. There's often no explanation for it. My old man put in for 8 years before he pulled his first elk tag. Us kids each pulled 2 in that time. It sucks while you have to wait and aren't drawn, but when you are it is oh-so-sweet!

Time to pray for RAIN! And LOTS of it! A nice wet year would be phenomenal!

Step 2 of 4 reached! Step 1: Pending authorization (since Friday). Step 2: From pending to actual charge (finally)! Step 3: Online Draw Results confirmation. Step 4: Tag in hand! So, breathing a little easier now!

Still showing that pending charge from 2/21. The rest of the pending charges I had for 2/21 have hit the card, but not this one. Makes me a little anxious and nervous. Has anyone ever had a pending charge from G&F not actually evolve into an actual tag? I seemed to hear something about that a few years ago, but not recently... This time of year and the anticipation is definitely a "love / hate" type of thing!

My Chase CC was just hit this morning for my son's U10 rifle bull hunt! Finally after 10 years the kid gets his own elk tag! I had really hoped holding out for U10 with those 8bps was going to do the trick this year, and it has. Have made the U10 hunt is 1st and only choice the last 4 years. Payoff time!

Unit 7W Bull tag. I must be doing something right, 2nd time in 4 years I drew this tag, with a Unit 10 late Dec cow hunt thrown in for good measure during that time. It was my 2nd choice (Unit 10 was 1st), but I'll gladly take it. Get to go back and hunt "the old stompin' grounds" and my home unit again.

Could be wrong, but that almost looks like Kendrick in the background to the left of the left most hunter. Not sure about the angle, but it almost looks like 7W just north of Sitgreaves? Or not.

Both son and I drew unit 10 any antlered on seperate apps! Will go nicely with the unit 10 late rifle cow tag I have. Get to combine some deer hunting and elk scouting it looks like!

This is truly depressing. All that's going to happen by closing down these roads, is the guys who followed the laws in the first place will not be traveling them. The bozos who have been flying all over heck and back on their ATV's will still be traveling these "closed" roads. What bothers me most I guess is the taking away of the dispersed camping. I really enjoyed being able to get a couple hundred yards back off the road to a relatively secluded campsite. With their proposals as it stands, you're either going to be eating vehicle and ATV dust all weekend camping right next to the roads, or you'll have to break the law to get to a decent semi-secluded campsite. I fear that is one law I could not follow. I won't be camping "the length of the vehicle" off the main roads. I see the road my family's long time (40 year) elk and everything else camp is off of looks to be slated for closure. That would be really upsetting. I would hate to never be able to camp there again, short of a backpack trip. I fear if this nonsense comes to pass, I will have to re-think my plan of moving back to AZ next May. What I love about AZ is not eating road dust around my campfire as vehicles and ATV's wizz by yards away. I don't mind (and actually prefer) walking in to do my hunting, and am not really troubled by not being able to use the vehicle for game retrieval, but the no dispersed camping thing could be a deal breaker for me, unfortunately.

That is bizare, it seems no matter what your understanding of the draw process is. I'd love to pose that question to G&F and ask them just how something like that could possibly happen. I guess I'm not as up on the draw process as I thought I was. I thought when your application was processed, you were given a random # between 1, and the total # of people who put in for that particular hunt. The people with the random #'s that were at or below the # of available tags, got those tags. I thoght those same random #'s carried over to your second choice? But I'm not sure that makes sense either, as you drew your 2nd choice with #25, and #26. Certainly there were more than 26 tags available in your first choice hunt unit. My head hurts.

Cough it up Pops You got a great Buck last year But he got to hunt Elk last year! Oh well if he keeps his grades up He will more than likely get it, nothing like hunting with your kids! I gave my 7W rifle bull tag to my son last year. This 10 late season rifle cow tag is gonna be a little tough to let go of since he was successful with that one. Same as you though, if his grades are right, he won't have a hard time talking me out of it. If we gotta have more conversations like I had with him last night regarding missing school work, well then it looks like Dad is goin' elk huntin alone this year.... Hunting. The true great motivator of teenage boys.

I find it hard to believe you could get any bull tag on a 3rd choice. And this one, considering the odds of drawing with 1st and 2nd choice was 15% last year? Are you sure?

Yeah!!!!!!! Got drawn 2nd year in a row. Last year 7W rifle bull, this year my 2nd choice unit 10 late rifle cow. I'm thoroughly jazzed. I know the late rifle cow hunt will be a tough hunt, but at least they give 10 days to do it in! Man, I've used up all my luck for a while....

This whole process just creates so much anxiety! But, you can't deny, it sure adds to the excitement. I wish they'd post the results already though. All this talk about disappearing charges on CC's has me nervous. I can't complain too loudly even if it does disappear, as I drew my dream elk tag last year (7W rifle bull), but my boy and I are 0 for 6 on deer and 0 for 4 on Javies the last few years, so I'll take the blessings on the elk side of things to be sure. Nothing wrong with a late cow hunt in my book, but I'm going to be hoping for a nice couse tag later this year still. Makes one wonder just what is happening. Last year I seem to recall the results were up just 4 or 5 days after the CC hits started. It's been 8 days now since my card was hit. My guess and hope is results will be up by COB tomorrow.

Amex Blue. Dated the 14th, but I didn't notice it until I got back from my week long predator hunt on Monday. I applied about 3 weeks before deadline.

Well, someone was askin' about how the NR's were doing, so here's how I appear to have done. Last year I drew a rifle bull tag with 2 bp's. Signed that tag over to my son, and he took his elk on day 3. Out of both him and I applying for antelope and non-premium deer and elk, the elk tag was the only tag we've drawn in the last 3 years. I am not complaining because it's the precise hunt I've always wanted to take him on, and we got to do it. This year I put him in for antelope (rifle 1st/ muzzy 2nd) and rifle bull elk 1st and 2nd choice (3 bp's), and put myself in for antelope (rifle 1st/ muzzy 2nd) and rifle bull 1st choice, and a late rifle cow hunt 2nd choice (0 bp's). It appears I've been drawn again (charge for $587 from G&F on the 14th, still there). It will be the late cow hunt this time undoubtedly, but I'm still very excited for the opportunity to hunt elk with my son again and put more elk meat in the freezer. If by some miracle it is a rifle bull tag again, I'm keeping this one for myself and will try to take a nice representative bull. I put in for the unit I grew up in before I left AZ for the military at 18. That's 7W, and to me that is my "premium" unit and goes down as my 1st choice every time. No place else I'd rather hunt elk. All this brings me to a question...there's a "10% non-resident cap" on tags. Being that it's a "cap" I'm assuming it's a maximum of 10% NR draw, and not that 10% of the tags are set aside and issued to NR's? Granted, I'm not applying for premium units, but I'm stunned I was able to draw a rifle bull with 2 bp's, and draw again the following year.

I'm curious as to what kind of objects you were attempting to range on with the Leica? Just wondering since you were at the store, and more than likely in an urban environment, if you were trying to range off of urban type items? What I've noticed with mine, is it did not seem to range as well with hard objects like a cliff face or ponderosa pine as it did on soft objects like animals, bushy trees, grass, etc. But, in no instance did I have any problem ranging on anything less than 800 yards or so out. If that's not the case, Sportmans needs to have that Leica CRF replaced, because it's faulty, plain and simple. I've so far not found much of anything I can't range almost instantly at 900 yards or less, or with just two or three readings in scan mode (all of 2 seconds or so). I'd say their Leica has likely been mistreated a time or two and needs repair. Your Nikon sounds like a good deal though to be sure. Good luck with it. Post us a review after you've had it out in the field a while.

I firs bought a Bushnell yardage pro scout figuring it would be "good enough" for my needs. Wrong. Piece of garbage. Range capabilities were at best exagerated. Could't even get it to consistently range my truck at 400 yards. In scan mode, the range stayed up for a hair fraction of a second, too fast to see. Sent that failure back and bought a pre-owned and Leica certified 1200 CRF for $500. Night and day difference. Ranged consistently out to 900 to 1000 yards, usually on the first try. Getting 1100 to 1150 yard readings was not difficult. Furthest I ranged was to 1320 yards. And, these were on "soft" targets.....elk, junipers, tree tops, etc. In fact, the Leica really seemed to excell at ranging the soft targets like junipers. In scan mode, the range stays up for a full second before attempting the next reading. Compact, and comes with a nice carrying case. Can't say enough good about the Leica. A new one was definately more than I wanted to spend, so I opted for the pre-owned and certified one. As stated by the vendor, you could not tell the difference from a brand new unit if you tried.

This is true, however, isn't that the same for all of us? Just because you locate any deer doesn't mean it's going to be wearing your tag. But, the more deer you locate, the more opportunities you have to use you skills to fill your tag. Same goes for spotting trophies from the air. The more trophies you spot, the greater your chance at tagging a trophy. I hope I didn't come off too strong in earlier posts, but I just got back from an elk hunt that I busted my rear for over the past 4 months scouting. Climbing up mountians, down canyons, and putting many miles on my boots and hours behind binos every day I scouted. Severely sprained my ankle scouting 5 days before the hunt while scouting, and hunted through it. Got my boy a shot at a very nice 6x6 on day 1 (deflected off a branch), had him pass on a shot on a small 6x6 on day 2 at 320 yards, and he finally collected a spike on day 3. He's pleased as punch about it, and I consider it a tremendous trophy considering the effort I put into the hunt. The feeling of satisfaction is incredible. I'd rather my boy (or me) bag that spike, and I'll feel a lot better about it than if we had used unethical means or took the easy way out and bagged a 6x6. That spike might not give me the same bragging rights some monster bull collected via chute plane scouting would, but I feel much more satisfied with the effort put into it. Maybe I'm backwards, but the satisfaction for me is in the effort expended during the hunt and hunt preparation, not about the size of the rack on the wall. But, then again, I don't do it for a living either...

Lemme address your questions one by one: Those are essentially methods available to most of us, and in common use. Note the emphasis on "eye in the sky" here. It's not so much about how you get to the top of the mountain, and that was not what I was getting at. Using elevation attained by way of leg power, horse power, or whatever, to glass from a vantage point from land is an accepted method of scouting / hunting, whereas flying around above places not visible from adjacent vantage points, or because one does not want to put the leg work into scouting these areas on foot, is NOT ethical, again, in my opinion. It it's ethical to you, that's fine, but I'd say we have completely different views about what hunting is really about. I never said I looked down my nose at him. I admire the heck outta the guy (certainly not so much now though). He's fit like no other hunter I know of. He takes risks and chances I would not take myself in pursuit of his animals (being afield with NO supplies or resources). He hunts all day long without water or food, and runs across the west's rugged rocky landscape in friggin tennis shoes! The guy's a hunting stud, and has got more balls than I do to hunt the way he does, no doubt. BUT, I don't agree one little bit with this method he's aparently employed for scouting, and in my eyes it GREATLY diminishes the stature of the trophies he has taken over the years if this method was employed by him, or anyone else who scouted for him, and aided in taking any of his trophies. Nobody may ever know the truth, but as the old saying goes, "where there's smoke, there's fire" kind of applies here, dontcha think? He gets injured on one of these contraptions, aparently a pal of his from what I understand, Ryan Hatch of Muley Crazy Magazine, was charged for illegal hunting from the air, owns one of these things, and uses it to "scout", etc. Come on, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to put it all together. I certainly feel strongly enough about it that I'll be cancelling my muley crazy subscription as well. I don't do business with frauds and poachers, especially those who exploit a tradition I love for their own financial gain. Your point? I know of guys who think it's perfectly ethical to road hunt, hunt animals in penned or fenced enclosures, and blast away at multiple animals until one drops. Doesn't make it right. I would say that from what I've seen so far concerning this subject, the vast majority of our (hunting) peers finds this practice unethical, distasteful, or at a minimum highly controversial. If you read through this thread, you'll see some who have even done it, and thought it unethical. It's an unfair advantage not only for one hunter over another hunter, but more importantly an unfair advantage for one hunter over the game he's pursuing. I tire of this "if it's legal, who are you to say it's unethical" garbage. I'm your peer, that's who I am! And if me and enough of your peers think it's unethical, well then, we dang well ought to do what can be done to stop the practice, because IT REFLECTS ON US ALL if we allow it to continue. I hope you're not one of those elitist self important types that likes to insinuate that because I don't have one, I must not be able to afford one, and if I can't afford one, nobody should have one? That's a common ATV argument that seems to be carrying over into this discussion. I don't care who has them and enjoys them. Sounds like a kick in the pants to me, albeit a dangerous one. I just don't think they should be used in hunting or scouting. I don't have horses either, and have never hunted from them, but I believe their use in hunting is perfectly ethical, as do most of our peers. As for "factual information", let's not be silly. How CAN IT NOT greatly increase hunting success? You only need to look at all the guides and outfitters who are using them to get your answer. One guide in this thread has already attested to their effectiveness for scouting. There's a reason scouting by air 48 hours before a hunt is illegal....because it's highly effective! There's also a reason this is kept so hush right now. Because they know it's unethical, or shall we say would at least it would be perceived as such by a large number of their peers and the general public, and do not want their methods advertised for fear of having this highly effective method of "scouting" banned. Personally, I'll do what little it is that I can do to get this garbage out in the open and get it banned. As much as I distaste scouting by airplane or helicopter and believe that to also be unethical, neither one of those approaches could possibly be anywhere near as effective as "scouting" from one of these low flying, stealthy, contraptions. The commercialization of hunting and this attitude that "if it's legal, it's okay", along with the willingness to pay any sum, or cross any boundry to collect the next record is sickening to me, and will destroy this sport and tradition.