daverp

Step 2 of 4 reached! Step 1: Pending authorization (since Friday). Step 2: From pending to actual charge (finally)! Step 3: Online Draw Results confirmation. Step 4: Tag in hand! So, breathing a little easier now!

Still showing that pending charge from 2/21. The rest of the pending charges I had for 2/21 have hit the card, but not this one. Makes me a little anxious and nervous. Has anyone ever had a pending charge from G&F not actually evolve into an actual tag? I seemed to hear something about that a few years ago, but not recently... This time of year and the anticipation is definitely a "love / hate" type of thing!

My Chase CC was just hit this morning for my son's U10 rifle bull hunt! Finally after 10 years the kid gets his own elk tag! I had really hoped holding out for U10 with those 8bps was going to do the trick this year, and it has. Have made the U10 hunt is 1st and only choice the last 4 years. Payoff time!

Unit 7W Bull tag. I must be doing something right, 2nd time in 4 years I drew this tag, with a Unit 10 late Dec cow hunt thrown in for good measure during that time. It was my 2nd choice (Unit 10 was 1st), but I'll gladly take it. Get to go back and hunt "the old stompin' grounds" and my home unit again.

Could be wrong, but that almost looks like Kendrick in the background to the left of the left most hunter. Not sure about the angle, but it almost looks like 7W just north of Sitgreaves? Or not.

Both son and I drew unit 10 any antlered on seperate apps! Will go nicely with the unit 10 late rifle cow tag I have. Get to combine some deer hunting and elk scouting it looks like!

This is truly depressing. All that's going to happen by closing down these roads, is the guys who followed the laws in the first place will not be traveling them. The bozos who have been flying all over heck and back on their ATV's will still be traveling these "closed" roads. What bothers me most I guess is the taking away of the dispersed camping. I really enjoyed being able to get a couple hundred yards back off the road to a relatively secluded campsite. With their proposals as it stands, you're either going to be eating vehicle and ATV dust all weekend camping right next to the roads, or you'll have to break the law to get to a decent semi-secluded campsite. I fear that is one law I could not follow. I won't be camping "the length of the vehicle" off the main roads. I see the road my family's long time (40 year) elk and everything else camp is off of looks to be slated for closure. That would be really upsetting. I would hate to never be able to camp there again, short of a backpack trip. I fear if this nonsense comes to pass, I will have to re-think my plan of moving back to AZ next May. What I love about AZ is not eating road dust around my campfire as vehicles and ATV's wizz by yards away. I don't mind (and actually prefer) walking in to do my hunting, and am not really troubled by not being able to use the vehicle for game retrieval, but the no dispersed camping thing could be a deal breaker for me, unfortunately.

That is bizare, it seems no matter what your understanding of the draw process is. I'd love to pose that question to G&F and ask them just how something like that could possibly happen. I guess I'm not as up on the draw process as I thought I was. I thought when your application was processed, you were given a random # between 1, and the total # of people who put in for that particular hunt. The people with the random #'s that were at or below the # of available tags, got those tags. I thoght those same random #'s carried over to your second choice? But I'm not sure that makes sense either, as you drew your 2nd choice with #25, and #26. Certainly there were more than 26 tags available in your first choice hunt unit. My head hurts.

Cough it up Pops You got a great Buck last year But he got to hunt Elk last year! Oh well if he keeps his grades up He will more than likely get it, nothing like hunting with your kids! I gave my 7W rifle bull tag to my son last year. This 10 late season rifle cow tag is gonna be a little tough to let go of since he was successful with that one. Same as you though, if his grades are right, he won't have a hard time talking me out of it. If we gotta have more conversations like I had with him last night regarding missing school work, well then it looks like Dad is goin' elk huntin alone this year.... Hunting. The true great motivator of teenage boys.

I find it hard to believe you could get any bull tag on a 3rd choice. And this one, considering the odds of drawing with 1st and 2nd choice was 15% last year? Are you sure?

Yeah!!!!!!! Got drawn 2nd year in a row. Last year 7W rifle bull, this year my 2nd choice unit 10 late rifle cow. I'm thoroughly jazzed. I know the late rifle cow hunt will be a tough hunt, but at least they give 10 days to do it in! Man, I've used up all my luck for a while....

This whole process just creates so much anxiety! But, you can't deny, it sure adds to the excitement. I wish they'd post the results already though. All this talk about disappearing charges on CC's has me nervous. I can't complain too loudly even if it does disappear, as I drew my dream elk tag last year (7W rifle bull), but my boy and I are 0 for 6 on deer and 0 for 4 on Javies the last few years, so I'll take the blessings on the elk side of things to be sure. Nothing wrong with a late cow hunt in my book, but I'm going to be hoping for a nice couse tag later this year still. Makes one wonder just what is happening. Last year I seem to recall the results were up just 4 or 5 days after the CC hits started. It's been 8 days now since my card was hit. My guess and hope is results will be up by COB tomorrow.

Amex Blue. Dated the 14th, but I didn't notice it until I got back from my week long predator hunt on Monday. I applied about 3 weeks before deadline.

Well, someone was askin' about how the NR's were doing, so here's how I appear to have done. Last year I drew a rifle bull tag with 2 bp's. Signed that tag over to my son, and he took his elk on day 3. Out of both him and I applying for antelope and non-premium deer and elk, the elk tag was the only tag we've drawn in the last 3 years. I am not complaining because it's the precise hunt I've always wanted to take him on, and we got to do it. This year I put him in for antelope (rifle 1st/ muzzy 2nd) and rifle bull elk 1st and 2nd choice (3 bp's), and put myself in for antelope (rifle 1st/ muzzy 2nd) and rifle bull 1st choice, and a late rifle cow hunt 2nd choice (0 bp's). It appears I've been drawn again (charge for $587 from G&F on the 14th, still there). It will be the late cow hunt this time undoubtedly, but I'm still very excited for the opportunity to hunt elk with my son again and put more elk meat in the freezer. If by some miracle it is a rifle bull tag again, I'm keeping this one for myself and will try to take a nice representative bull. I put in for the unit I grew up in before I left AZ for the military at 18. That's 7W, and to me that is my "premium" unit and goes down as my 1st choice every time. No place else I'd rather hunt elk. All this brings me to a question...there's a "10% non-resident cap" on tags. Being that it's a "cap" I'm assuming it's a maximum of 10% NR draw, and not that 10% of the tags are set aside and issued to NR's? Granted, I'm not applying for premium units, but I'm stunned I was able to draw a rifle bull with 2 bp's, and draw again the following year.

I'm curious as to what kind of objects you were attempting to range on with the Leica? Just wondering since you were at the store, and more than likely in an urban environment, if you were trying to range off of urban type items? What I've noticed with mine, is it did not seem to range as well with hard objects like a cliff face or ponderosa pine as it did on soft objects like animals, bushy trees, grass, etc. But, in no instance did I have any problem ranging on anything less than 800 yards or so out. If that's not the case, Sportmans needs to have that Leica CRF replaced, because it's faulty, plain and simple. I've so far not found much of anything I can't range almost instantly at 900 yards or less, or with just two or three readings in scan mode (all of 2 seconds or so). I'd say their Leica has likely been mistreated a time or two and needs repair. Your Nikon sounds like a good deal though to be sure. Good luck with it. Post us a review after you've had it out in the field a while.

I firs bought a Bushnell yardage pro scout figuring it would be "good enough" for my needs. Wrong. Piece of garbage. Range capabilities were at best exagerated. Could't even get it to consistently range my truck at 400 yards. In scan mode, the range stayed up for a hair fraction of a second, too fast to see. Sent that failure back and bought a pre-owned and Leica certified 1200 CRF for $500. Night and day difference. Ranged consistently out to 900 to 1000 yards, usually on the first try. Getting 1100 to 1150 yard readings was not difficult. Furthest I ranged was to 1320 yards. And, these were on "soft" targets.....elk, junipers, tree tops, etc. In fact, the Leica really seemed to excell at ranging the soft targets like junipers. In scan mode, the range stays up for a full second before attempting the next reading. Compact, and comes with a nice carrying case. Can't say enough good about the Leica. A new one was definately more than I wanted to spend, so I opted for the pre-owned and certified one. As stated by the vendor, you could not tell the difference from a brand new unit if you tried.

This is true, however, isn't that the same for all of us? Just because you locate any deer doesn't mean it's going to be wearing your tag. But, the more deer you locate, the more opportunities you have to use you skills to fill your tag. Same goes for spotting trophies from the air. The more trophies you spot, the greater your chance at tagging a trophy. I hope I didn't come off too strong in earlier posts, but I just got back from an elk hunt that I busted my rear for over the past 4 months scouting. Climbing up mountians, down canyons, and putting many miles on my boots and hours behind binos every day I scouted. Severely sprained my ankle scouting 5 days before the hunt while scouting, and hunted through it. Got my boy a shot at a very nice 6x6 on day 1 (deflected off a branch), had him pass on a shot on a small 6x6 on day 2 at 320 yards, and he finally collected a spike on day 3. He's pleased as punch about it, and I consider it a tremendous trophy considering the effort I put into the hunt. The feeling of satisfaction is incredible. I'd rather my boy (or me) bag that spike, and I'll feel a lot better about it than if we had used unethical means or took the easy way out and bagged a 6x6. That spike might not give me the same bragging rights some monster bull collected via chute plane scouting would, but I feel much more satisfied with the effort put into it. Maybe I'm backwards, but the satisfaction for me is in the effort expended during the hunt and hunt preparation, not about the size of the rack on the wall. But, then again, I don't do it for a living either...

Lemme address your questions one by one: Those are essentially methods available to most of us, and in common use. Note the emphasis on "eye in the sky" here. It's not so much about how you get to the top of the mountain, and that was not what I was getting at. Using elevation attained by way of leg power, horse power, or whatever, to glass from a vantage point from land is an accepted method of scouting / hunting, whereas flying around above places not visible from adjacent vantage points, or because one does not want to put the leg work into scouting these areas on foot, is NOT ethical, again, in my opinion. It it's ethical to you, that's fine, but I'd say we have completely different views about what hunting is really about. I never said I looked down my nose at him. I admire the heck outta the guy (certainly not so much now though). He's fit like no other hunter I know of. He takes risks and chances I would not take myself in pursuit of his animals (being afield with NO supplies or resources). He hunts all day long without water or food, and runs across the west's rugged rocky landscape in friggin tennis shoes! The guy's a hunting stud, and has got more balls than I do to hunt the way he does, no doubt. BUT, I don't agree one little bit with this method he's aparently employed for scouting, and in my eyes it GREATLY diminishes the stature of the trophies he has taken over the years if this method was employed by him, or anyone else who scouted for him, and aided in taking any of his trophies. Nobody may ever know the truth, but as the old saying goes, "where there's smoke, there's fire" kind of applies here, dontcha think? He gets injured on one of these contraptions, aparently a pal of his from what I understand, Ryan Hatch of Muley Crazy Magazine, was charged for illegal hunting from the air, owns one of these things, and uses it to "scout", etc. Come on, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to put it all together. I certainly feel strongly enough about it that I'll be cancelling my muley crazy subscription as well. I don't do business with frauds and poachers, especially those who exploit a tradition I love for their own financial gain. Your point? I know of guys who think it's perfectly ethical to road hunt, hunt animals in penned or fenced enclosures, and blast away at multiple animals until one drops. Doesn't make it right. I would say that from what I've seen so far concerning this subject, the vast majority of our (hunting) peers finds this practice unethical, distasteful, or at a minimum highly controversial. If you read through this thread, you'll see some who have even done it, and thought it unethical. It's an unfair advantage not only for one hunter over another hunter, but more importantly an unfair advantage for one hunter over the game he's pursuing. I tire of this "if it's legal, who are you to say it's unethical" garbage. I'm your peer, that's who I am! And if me and enough of your peers think it's unethical, well then, we dang well ought to do what can be done to stop the practice, because IT REFLECTS ON US ALL if we allow it to continue. I hope you're not one of those elitist self important types that likes to insinuate that because I don't have one, I must not be able to afford one, and if I can't afford one, nobody should have one? That's a common ATV argument that seems to be carrying over into this discussion. I don't care who has them and enjoys them. Sounds like a kick in the pants to me, albeit a dangerous one. I just don't think they should be used in hunting or scouting. I don't have horses either, and have never hunted from them, but I believe their use in hunting is perfectly ethical, as do most of our peers. As for "factual information", let's not be silly. How CAN IT NOT greatly increase hunting success? You only need to look at all the guides and outfitters who are using them to get your answer. One guide in this thread has already attested to their effectiveness for scouting. There's a reason scouting by air 48 hours before a hunt is illegal....because it's highly effective! There's also a reason this is kept so hush right now. Because they know it's unethical, or shall we say would at least it would be perceived as such by a large number of their peers and the general public, and do not want their methods advertised for fear of having this highly effective method of "scouting" banned. Personally, I'll do what little it is that I can do to get this garbage out in the open and get it banned. As much as I distaste scouting by airplane or helicopter and believe that to also be unethical, neither one of those approaches could possibly be anywhere near as effective as "scouting" from one of these low flying, stealthy, contraptions. The commercialization of hunting and this attitude that "if it's legal, it's okay", along with the willingness to pay any sum, or cross any boundry to collect the next record is sickening to me, and will destroy this sport and tradition.

I think what some who are throwing out the technology debate (i.e. gps, rangefinders, binos, etc.) fail to see is these things are available to most people. A gps can be picked up for under $100 now. Rangefinders aren't that expensive, and really don't offer that much of an edge anyway. Thousand dollar binos? My $200 Nikon Monarch ATB's serve me just fine, thanks, and trust me when I tell you that some guy's Swarovskis really aren't giving them that big of an edge over my cheapie Nikons. ATV's? I can't for the life of me see how anyone could consider an ATV an asset or advantage to any hunt, except after the animal is down and for recovery purposes. Some slob road hunting from road, trail, or cross country on an ATV will never see the number or quality of animals that someone who ventures a mere 1/2 mile off the road on foot will. Sure, these things are great technological advances and extreme advantages over what was being used 100 years ago. However, 100 years ago they didn't have to deal with the hunting pressures and limited available lands we do now. The animals are simply harder to hunt now than they were then. But all these things are no great advantage over not using them, and still require one to put in the hard work if they want to be consistently successful. This chute plane thing though stinks to high heaven. What's next? Super rich dudes paying to have sattelites re-tasked to find and track animals? Is that sporting? What's the difference between that and this? My personal belief is that any "eye in the sky" technique short of your own leg power to drag your butt up to the top of a hill or mountain to glass is unethical. To be able to cover that much PRIME ground, that quickly, with no expenditure of real effort is flat out not sporting. I think I heard it best on another forum. This guy consistently takes HUGE animals, record book animals, that many great hunters spend a lifetime trying to take, and wants everyone to believe it's because he's some kind of "super hunter". Great, fine, I'll buy it. But, when he gets caught with his hand in the cookie jar, using highly questionable and controversial means, even if it was "just this once" at the VERY LEAST that puts him under a great amount of suspicion, that he brought on himself. If he was looking for a shortcut on just this one hunt and got nabbed, he darn well ought to be intelligent enough to at least know how it looks. He made his bed. He's a big boy, and now he can lay in it. He might be a great guy, but he's gotta know how this looks.

Flying ATV's. I like that. Personally, this whole thing really takes the shine off of Mr. Ulmer's image as far as I'm concerned. Legal, sure, but ethical, I personally don't think so. Short of extended time off to scout endlessley, anything that gives someone such a distinct advantage over the average hunter as something like this does, just does not seem right to me. Trust me, I can certainly see the attraction of buzzing around at slow speed just over the tree tops and busting out monster bucks and bulls, but I personally would have a hard time looking myself in the mirror if I were to take a buck or bull with information acquired from this type of "scouting", no matter how difficult the stalk. Like it has been said, it's a lot easier to stay focused and dedicated when you know your monster buck is in the area you're hunting, and know where all of his bedding areas are. I'd be pretty upset myself if I climbed to the top of a small mountain to glass and had some lazy SOB buzzed over the area scaring out all the animals. Now we all know Mr. Ulmer is not lazy, and is about as fit as one man can be and hunts hard as heck, but he's still using the tactic not available to most hunters to greatly increase his odds of success over traditional, hard earned methods. More importantly he's using a method that most hunters would find unethical. At the least, it is very controversial. If it wasn't, he'd be writing articles about it. Bluntly, don't preach to me about the purity of your archery hunting and about getting "back to basics" when you're buzzing your hunting area in an ultralight aircraft!

Man, you guys are bumming me out with some of these responses. I'm a AZ native, currently displaced in Kalifornia, having left at 18 to go into the Army. Now I'm stuck here taking care of an elderly parent, and will not leave at this time. Hoping and praying to get back in the next 3 years maximum. What am I coming back to? No place I'd rather live, I'm AZ through and through, but the Kalifornia exodus into AZ is REALLY scaring me about what's going to happen to this great state. What will it be like 10 years from now? As much as I generally dislike much of the population here, I really HATE them moving to "my state". For now I'll have to settle for trips back every 6 weeks or so, oh, and my son's bull elk hunt in 7W in November! That and being there about twice a month scouting over the next 3 months....

I don't know why they did away with the way it used to be when I was a kid back in the 80's, where if you drew an elk tag, that was it for 5 years I thought (someone here said 3?). Put a 3 year res and 5 year non-res restriction on it, and keep the bonus point system. You would not accumulate points for the years you could not apply after drawing a tag. That would have to even things out a little better I think. I'm not complaining, because I just drew a non-res bull tag, but it's hard to hear of guys going 10, 15, or even more years without drawing a bull tag when others claim to have drawn "three years in a row". "Lottery drawing" or not, where's the fairness in that? it might be cyclic, but tell that to the guy that hasn't drawn in 13 years! They're going to have to make adjustments. With the drought we're getting fewer hunting opportunities, and more residents to compete for the decreased opportunities. I don't like the idea of having to pay for all your tags up front like they did last year (res or non-res). That puts a lot of the hunts, especially for non-residents, into reach of the rich only, and that doesn't sit well with me. Come up with a system where the poor guy has every chance the rich guy has, and I'll buy into it.

Try mytopo.com You can order your maps in whatever scale you want, in several different sizes, centered how you want, even over different USGS quads. You can also get them waterproof which is nice. I order all my maps through them and have been very happy with what I get.

I'd think becuase there were still tags remaining in the unit, but the 10% non resident quota had already been filled, and the 2 non-residents on the app would have put them over the 10% non-resident cap? I thought that all parties on a party application were accepted or rejected as a whole though. Maybe it's a new rule to make sure the non-res 10% cap is not exceeded, and their not finished on hammering the non-residents yet in response to USO's stupid stunt?

Click on Draw, then click on Spring Draw. It will bring up the correct page. Can't believe it, my son did not get drawn for 7W Cow 2nd choice as I first thought when my CC got hit, I got drawn for 7W bull, my favorite elk unit!!! This will be a hard tag to transfer over to the boy, but I'll do it anyway. Kid does not know how lucky he is! Good Luck All!