Pac8541

Gonna see who carries what nearby today, maybe as far as Bass Pro or Archery HQ. I talked to Aron Snyder about this also. I consider him more of an authority somewhat in the limelight than someone like Cameron Hanes or any of the TV personalities. Aron is also employed by Kifaru whose packs I've used overseas extensively, and he's former Army Ranger or SF or something like that. Not a Marine but I'll forgive him for that... Anyway, his statement was that he'd never choose feathers over vanes due to a lack of weatherproofness and durability. But he echoed your comments on feathers being relatively equal at 40-60yds. Maybe a little more drop but not like they just fall out of the sky. And I'm not trying to imply that this is what Creed said; it isn't but I do have plans to shoot 60-80-100 yds just to dial in my shooting. My jeep is still in the garage. It needs a new cat and I've had an 8-lug D44 waiting to install for years. Can't quite bring myself to get rid of her and my plans for it have completely shifted from future crawler to capable back country delivery system. On the other hand, selling it would provide a decent down payment on the mid sized truck I plan to buy sometime around the end of the year. We'll see.

Wow, dang good info Lance. That answers some significant questions. How's the jeep running, btw? Is there any difference between Gateway and Trueflight? Is there another manufacturer I should be looking at?

Never thought about going back and forth between the 2. I think I'll do it just to satisfy my own curiosity. heck, I've got the time...

Nailed it. I haven't done any backcountry hunting; I am neither equipped nor prepared enough for that yet. The furthest I've been from a road has been maybe 3 miles. A couple buddies thought I was nuts hunting out of my 2-man tent last Nov in 22N! Their definition of "roughing it" is far from mine, cuz there was nothing rough about those 4 days. But, I have done a fair amount of backcountry flyfishing and I do that specifically for what it does for my soul. In my profession, its therapy on a career survival level; a humanity life preserver. It is literally what keeps me sane. We ALL need something like that, and the fishing is only part of that equation. Adversity experienced in that manner IS freedom. The environment under those circumstances allows us to be who we really are, good and bad, and be honest with ourselves to a degree that is not possible elsewhere. We all want and need to bring something home for the effort but frankly, I'll take a lifetime of empty tags if I can do it without seeing hundreds of hunters/fishermen before I embrace glassing from my hood and hauling everything out by quad.

I don't have much doubt feathers will do a good job at stabilizing BHs, especially 4" ones, despite having never shot them. But what Creed said about velocity dropping off and the issue of wind drag at "extended" distance is where I find my questions. I like the fact that they're lighter than vanes, love the traditional feel of them, but ultimately it's about taking an animal and putting meat in my freezer. I train to have confidence in a 50yd shot so I want my equipment to do its part

This has been up and waiting for a little while and I know how that feels. So, speaking only for myself, sorry for not taking the time; I've been a little preoccupied for the last couple months. The one I've been using to sharpen VPA 2 blade heads has been an older Lansky kit. It isn't ideal but it includes a multi-angle clamp and 4 narrow stones from coarse to ultra fine. I'm sure you've seen the type: the stones affix to a thin rod and that rod is guided by a slot in the clamp. This keeps the stone at one of 3 or 4 predetermined angles. I also bought a small handheld diamond stone to carry in the field in my pack for touch ups. I'd like to try something like the Worksharp products but good God do those get expensive. I hope others speak up about this because I'd be interested in seeing what works also. I'm gonna try Solid Broadheads this year and they say all I need is a strop. I don't know about that but I guess we'll see.

Gave this a lot of thought last night after considering opinions from multiple sources. Its funny how different forums value different attributes and almost completely disregard others. Its almost a "group think" society from one place to another. Here, FOC and heavy arrows are pretty acceptable and encouraged where as other places, I just need to "use quality components" and treat FOC like "bowhunting's latest fad diet." Good advice all around but this is why I go through this process; to see for myself and find what works best for me. Very much agree on broadheads Jack, but IMO perfect flight and accuracy are equally important. I cannot compromise on any of those 3. I think there are plenty of really good BH's out there to choose from and as long as I decide on 2 or 3 of them, whether or not they stay together and do their job is almost a non-issue. But, if I can't tune perfect flight and consistency in them, they get eliminated. So maybe for me flight and accuracy are even more important... Anyway, with all that in mind I think I'm going to try Solid Broadheads this year. I've heard very good things about their flight characteristics and I like their all steel-construction. VPA got the nod last year so I've still got those in my inventory. And yesterday the Silverflames I bought 10yrs ago are still flying awfully well too. Cost per arrow continues to climb

Next week I get my left shoulder replaced with some kind of unobtanium Steve Austin part. During my time off I'm going to build another dozen or 2 arrows but I'm having a little trouble settling on a shaft. I want to try the micro diameter Eastons and its coming down to either the Carbon D6 Injexions or the FMJ Deep 6. Both are 4mm shafts and in a 330 spine, they spec out at 10.2gr and 11gr per inch respectively. I'm building them with VPA's footed outserts which will really strengthen the point insert and protect end of the shaft. I really like the way the FMJs pull out of targets. That may be a minor concern relative to everything else but with what I'm facing next week and the fact that this will be surgery #4 between both sides, little things like that can make a difference. Has anyone experienced anything regarding shafts becoming bent from use or practice? If so, how prone are they to do this? The all carbon shafts appeal to me due to their durability. Since I tend to shoot a target far more than live animals, I like the fact that they won't bend with all that use and would be more durable if I were to take a spill. Any input on either shaft is appreciated.

Hi Jack. I know I've been through this before and I appreciate you taking the time to offer advice and give an opinion. Your input is always welcome and was valuable when I did this last year. I guess I'm after the most capable tool for the job while admitting I'm not exactly sure which attributes should be given more weight. At present, FOC seems to be at or near the top of my priorities but only if focus on that characteristic doesn't throw the whole equation out of balance. I know I'm not going to hit 270 or higher on the chrono unless I choose an arrow that's lighter than I want, and by that I mean makes my bow noisy and feel less stable. Firing heavy arrows feels "right" to me with every shot. It feels like things are operating properly, it feels solid, stable, and efficient. Speed alone has never been my top priority but I recognize that speed cannot be completely abandoned simply to hit the heaviest weight arrow with the highest FOC. There is a point of diminishing returns since things like momentum and kinetic energy are dependent on both mass and velocity. I envy the guys with long draw lengths... So Mr. Jack, I guess the short answer to your question is yes, kinda. I want FOC >15%, I want total arrow weight above 450gr, and I'm trying to remain realistic regarding speed, knowing what my equipment and personal limitations are.

I put 4 arrows through a chronograph yesterday afternoon: Carbon Injexion, 452gr, 260fps. Carbon Injexion, 477gr, 255fps. FMJ D6, 478gr, 254fps. FMJ D6 503gr, 248fps. Numbers 2 and 3 are virtually identical and between the 4 of them it seems to me that it will come down to other factors, FOC being the primary one for me. At the moment it appears the CI shaft will be the one I'll build as a dozen with the ability to go back and forth between 100 and 125 gr points. But, I'm interested in your guys' opinion. What do you all think?

Built a carbon injexion last night and shot it against the FMJ D6 today and I think I'm gonna go with the CI's. Don't have a chrono on that one yet (monday) but the numbers work more in my favor: total arrow weight is 477gr with an FOC of almost 17%. Penetration was interesting. I chose an almost completely un-shot side of my target and put 4 arrows into it from 30yds. Photos below with an explanation following. Above photo is the FMJ D6 and Carbon Injexion, both shot from 30 yds. The FMJ has 17gr less weight at the fletching than the last pics below. It would appear the CI shaft outpenetrated the FMJ. Top to bottom: ACC 488gr 7.425" Carbon Injexion 475gr 8.5" FMJ D6 500gr 8.5" FMJ standard 580gr 8.25" Penetration was determined by measuring from the target face to the end of the nock, then subtracting that from total arrow length. All 4 have different overall lengths due to cut length and how the points are attached.

My thoughts exactly, Jr. But, I'd like to see something around 270 just the same. I think that'd put me a bit lighter than I want but like everything, it's picking the best compromise. I'm gonna try this same thing with a 100gr point and then see what the carbons show. You guys have a chrono at the shop I can run a few arrows through on Mon?

This arrow just did 251fps out of a 2016 Elite E35, 70lbs, 27.5" DL. Seems a little slow to me...

Well things didn't start out super awesome: the shafts wound up being cut a 1/2" shorter than what I asked for and I didn't notice that until this morning. Then as I started assembling the correct length shafts that I ordered from Lancaster I screwed one up trying to get the insert in with Loctite gel. That stuff sets up REALLY FAST. Putting pressure on the insert to get the shoulder into the mouth of the shaft wound up making it stick. So now I've got a brand new FMJ with about an 1/8th inch insert sticking out of the end. FMJ quickly became FML. Whatever. The 1/2" in shaft length doesn't actually make that much of a difference and the point still winds up just ahead of, or even with, the front of my riser. Here are the 2 point end assemblies I'm using. The top one is the VPA footer (7075 AL, 12gr.) and has a small lip on the end to protect the face of the shaft. VPA machines these a little larger in diameter at the face to match the shank of their broadheads. Their D6 broadheads have the correct threads to fit the insert but are standard diameter from the threads up. That difference in footer to D6 point diameter is shown in the 2nd photo. The bottom one is the VPA footed outsert (7075 Al, 52gr.). The narrow shank glues inside the shaft with the outsert sticking out, then the sleeve slides up against the shouldered base of the outsert covering the intersection of the shaft and outsert. The 3rd photo shows the footed outsert assembled on the shaft. I've only assembled this one shaft, the other test arrows are sitting over the next 24hrs for the epoxy to set up on the inserts (learn quick, huh?!). FMJ Deep Six 330, 26.5" ctc. Easton G nock. Vanetec vanes that weight 5gr each (to approximate the Flexfletch Flash vane I plan to use). VPA footed outsert. 125gr field point. Total weight: 488gr FOC: 18% I plan to add Firenocks to these because I love those things and they'll add 18gr to the total weight and lower my FOC a bit. No idea how fast they'll be. I don't trust the online software for a lot of this so I'm gonna shoot this one through a chrono this afternoon. I'm going to try the footer on a Carbon Injexion 330 tomorrow. That one will spec out much lighter overall.

Never mind. Picked up a half dozen of each today, gonna build a few with VPA's footer and footed outsert and see how they fly. Will post a few pics along the way in case anyone is looking the same way.

I've been checking probably 12 times a day for the last week. 10 min ago: nothing. 60sec ago, my hunt is showing for 2016.

Just checked the portal, my hunt for this year has posted!

Last fall I picked up a new rod, a little 7'2" glass number that is perfect for the fishing I truly love to do: small creeks as far from a road as I can get and that tend to hold some of the most beautiful fish on the planet. The reel I bought for it ahead of time wound up being too light to balance it well. So a month ago I received a non tax-related refund that provided the perfect opportunity to buy a reel I never thought I'd have the spare cash to own. The Abel Super 3N, custom finished to match the species I love most and which happens to also compliment the yellow/orange blank of the Scott 3wt its going on. Balance is exactly where I wanted it to be. Can't wait to get this beauty on the water. Its absolutely gorgeous.

I'm trying both, just getting very different numbers regarding spine for what I'm inputting.

Lemme try this question a little differently: Between OT2 and Archers Advantage, which one have you guys found to be more accurate regarding weight, speed, FOC, and especially, dynamic spine?

Anyone have any experience with these?

I've been shooting Firenocks for the last year or so and have been extremely pleased with their performance. They turn on as they leave the bowstring and stay on until I turn them off with a bounce on a hard surface. The top of my Rienhart target is enough. The entire circuit and nock can be removed from the shaft and the battery replaced. They come with a practice nock and weight strip that matches the weight of the circuit/battery (23gr). Installation involves gluing in a very small aluminum stopper inside the shaft that acts to absorb shock and protect the circuit and battery. There's a tool they include to get that at the right depth in the shaft. The only downside is cost. They're $66 for a 3 pack so outfitting even half a dozen arrows can cost you as much as a whole dozen shafts. And there's the kick in the balls feeling when you inadvertently nail one during practice. I've got them in my ACCs and when I build a new dozen in the next couple months (micro diam. shafts this time) I'm going to put them in those too. Customer service from Dorge at Firenock has been outstanding too. Lastly, one of the cool advantages to using lighted nocks is the fact that they help me tune my bow and select the right arrow components. Many cell phones have the ability to shoot video in slow motion and when filmed from behind the bow as the arrow is released, you can see pretty much exactly what the arrow is doing from the moment it leaves the string. Its rather fascinating. This will also show you what you're doing to the bow and help you diagnose form issues. Anyway, enough from me. I'm sold on them and will continue to spend the money.

I used USAA as well and I'm in the same boat. Called them yesterday. They had my Colorado draw charges posted same day. Nothing from AZ. Still hope for Monday. Then wait for NM. Otherwise OTC Colorado. Good luck to all! USAA charges have been pending for me since the 1st.

SOLD. Thanks MDH!

About a year old. No scratches or dings, only very minor wear along a few edges. Comes with 1 quick disconnect stud for whatever stabilizer you want to run with it. $50, which saves you 60 bucks off retail through Lancaster and the possibility that they may not be in stock. I waited about a month to find this and now I don't need it. I live in Queen Creek but travel into Phx 4 days a week. Willing to meet within reason.