Pac8541

Well, I got them all fletched up this afternoon. I got through the first 6 when I noticed the ends of each vane weren't adhering fully to the shaft. This was after already adjusting properly, or so I thought, the jig and clamp to achieve full contact along the length of the vane base. So I tweaked it again, played with the adjustment knobs on the jig and got it a little bit better while also getting a touch more helical out of it. The last 6 wound up a bit more hard to the right. I used FF FFP-360 vanes and Zing primer/adhesive. Those vanes seemed to do a better job with instant stability and great flight than the ST-300's. They also seemed to fly quieter. Seeing as how FF recommends their "extreme" vanes for higher speed bows and cross bows and describe the FFP vanes as a slightly more flexible material, maybe thats the reason. The ST's are in the line of extreme vanes. Anyway, I'm happy with them even though the ST's look cooler. I found the Loctite gel adhesive better and easier to use than the Zing glue. Once dry Zing holds just fine but it doesn't set up as quickly which means it didn't hold the vane in position as well when I took the clamp off. This was partially why some of the vane ends didn't make full contact. I could have left them in the clamp longer but in the end and with the rhythm I had going, it was easier and more satisfactory to just use the Loctite stuff. On the other hand, I didn't like the Loctite when installing point inserts. The very thing that made it so awesome on the vanes worked against me when trying to time the inserts. Maybe point timing doesn't make a difference but my OCD-ness says it does. I'm about ready to settle on my set up. As I mentioned previously, the 175gr heads appear to perform better out of my bow but I really like the 3-blade design in a BH so I ordered a trio of VPA custom shop 3-blade's in that weight. I have no doubt I can tune them and my bow. A couple minute changes I've made have already made a difference with the 150's. I have no issue whatsoever shooting the 2-blade version though.

Good questions, haven't tried either. I've run out of time over my weekend and head back to work tomorrow so it'll have to wait until Sunday, earliest. I'll be ordering same weight field points from 3 Rivers Archery (thanks again, elpepe!) this week. For the moment I've lifted my rest a bit and brought it a hair right to bring things into the middle. Thats the only adjustment I'm going to make before I finish the rest of the shafts. And replace my "stabilizer" with a stabilizer. And restring the bow cuz I'm still running the OEM string. And maybe find a lighter weight way to guard the cables other than the Windstalker I'm using now. Good grief, what the heck am I doing....??

I'd like some feedback from you guys concerning a few odd flight issues I'm experiencing with these heads. Here are my specs: Bowtech Allegiance 70lbs, 27.5" DL, 80% let off. ACC Pro Hunter 340's, 26.5", 3 fletched with 3.6" Flex Fletch right helical. VPA 2 blade 175gr and 3 blade 150gr. OT2 software numbers 175gr heads: 501gr total arrow weight, 245fps, 15.29% foc, 339 dynamic spine. 150gr heads: 476gr total arrow weight, 252fps, 13.57% foc, 351 dynamic spine. Bear in mind that my bow is untuned for these heads and I've been shooting both new heads and vanes for groups to see which combination shoots best. I've settled on the longer vanes as they seem to stabilize the arrow faster. Both heads are flying pretty well. Both are shooting lower than my former arrows but are significantly heavier. I initially experienced some left deviation but seem to have solved that after diagnosing my shooting form. The issue is the lighter heads are dropping about twice as much as the heavier ones and this increases with range. Photo 1 below shows the 175 POI from 20 yds. POA was the "O" in "BLOCK." Photo 2 is the 150 from the same yard line. Photo 3 is the 150 head from 30yds using my 30yd sight pin after it struck a rock at the base of the target and went under the target. The 175's shot from 30yds with the correct sight pin hit in the same place as they did from 20yds. Is this wind planing? The only variable here is the head. Thoughts? Experience?

Yes Jack, I do have control of all the variables when building my own arrows. The point I'm at though is I've chosen and purchased the shafts in the most versatile spine for me, I've chosen the nocks I want based on what I'm trying to achieve in terms of visibility and reliability. Neither of those 2 items am I willing to replace at this point due to both cost and faith in the product; I see no reason to question them. I've asked for samples of 2 different vanes and shot them both side by side to determine which length/profile stabilizes the arrow fastest and flies the quietest. Now with those parts of the equation solved, so to speak, I move on to broadheads and have chosen 2 that I feel are good candidates for what I'm trying to achieve. I have no previous experience with VPA heads nor do I have experience with heads this heavy. I decided to shoot them without touching the bow because by leaving the bow untuned for these particular heads I felt that would give me a reliable baseline from which to start. It shot my previous arrows and heads just fine but those were up to 75gr lighter than these and thats just in the head. So I guess what I'm trying to achieve right now is to determine whether or not either head rises to the top in terms of inherent accuracy or flight. Its something I do with precision rifles: establish a baseline of sorts and attack one "variable" at a time. I don't need or expect bullets to match my POA immediately but I shoot them to see how they group. If they do well and my rifle likes them, then I start making refinements to my equipment to achieve POA/POI. I don't see why this wouldn't work with a bow. Not trying to be a dick or argue but I want to be clear as to what I'm doing. Tuning the bow is one thing, I think I may be able to tune these elevation issues out of the flight. But if there's something I'm missing regarding this particular broadhead or the experiences others have with their flight then I'd rather know about it now before I spend anymore time with them. I appreciate all the feedback, thanks.

azbwhntr, thanks for the reply. I'm gonna give the 10" a shot. To keep the OP's post on topic, I've been shooting a Stealth Archery 6" with a limbsaver rubber doohicky on the end. It cuts hand shock and vibration great but in terms of eliminating torque and actually stabilizing the bow, I don't feel it does enough. Total weight is 11.2ozs but its all concentrated in the body of the stabilizer, not out at the end where it needs to be. I bought it 8 yrs ago and before I knew what was important when choosing a stabilizer. It works for some folks and a lot of people have good things to say about the Stealth but I don't think its as much a stabilizer as it is a vibration control device. And a heavy one at that... BTW, that article elpepe cited is a good one. Quite the eye-opener.

Well, its the only variable I have direct control over, is what I meant. I get that spine and FOC will change and that will happen with every different weight head I put on there. I'm confident I could tune either head to shoot well I'm just a little baffled as to why its happening. I wouldn't say my bow is anything close to a speed demon but planing is about the only thing I can think of. Nock/rest tuning would likely cure the low hits, its not like they're all over the place or inconsistent. But with what I'm seeing initially, I may just go with the 2 blade heads anyway: the heavier arrow is shooting great.

How does one determine where to start regarding length and weight (for a hunting rig)?

Yes they are. I bought 6 firenocks and 12 matched weight practice nocks and it ran me over $200. I feel a little ridiculous for rationalizing the purchase but if they work as well as they're reputed to, that feeling will fade over time. I'm sure that at the moment of truth when some big bull falls to my arrow, none of it will matter. For now though, I feel just a slight bit guilty.

Work has been quite busy this week and I haven't gotten out to shoot until today and even that wasn't much. I shot the 3 blade 150's from VPA with both sets of vanes and they're matching what I found with the heavier heads. It appears that it's simply a matter of tuning the bow to the broad heads but the FFP 360's definitely show less deviation than the ST300's and they fly quieter. The shift in impact for both is going the same direction it's just a matter of degrees: the ST300's shoot further left and lower than the 360's. Interestingly though, the impact with the heavier heads didn't show any drop, just in windage. Either way it seems the longer vanes are the ones I'll be going with. Still haven't gotten around to shooting the actual firenocks, only their matched weight practice ones. They work in the house turning on and off with a bounce on the table but I have yet to see them function as described by firing one out of the bow. Tomorrow...

I know this has been discussed numerous times and believe me, I've searched and read quite a bit from previous threads, including the one pinned at the top of this forum. I have yet to find real answers regarding what exactly to look for in early season boots in hot climates. The areas I expect to hunt in will be probably in the 5000' el neighborhood. I'm confused as to how stiff/supportive a boot needs to be balanced against weight and comfort (non oven like). If I'm planning a 5-7 day backpack style hunt should I be looking at heavy duty, stiff-soled backpacking boots? Or would a lighter weight but robust hiker be more appropriate? Where is the balance between the 2 and if I err, should it be to the more supportive side or the lighter weight. How much is too much? I get a good deal on Scarpa products so I've been looking at their line up more closely. There are several "backpacking" boots that range from 1lb 9ozs to 1lb 14ozs. They look pretty stiff and while I'm tempted to pull the trigger on them, I'm concerned about their ability to be quiet or soft on the ground when I need them to be. The Himavan model looks good and is slightly lighter weight (1lb 6ozs) but will something like that not work well with a heavy load? I've posted this on other websites and not getting a lot of info but I swear, I've searched and read and googled the shoot outta this. Need help folks, looking forward to you responses. Thanks.

Got the Kinesis boots in today and I've been wearing them around the house all afternoon. Extremely comfortable and surprisingly easy to walk in. I was afraid of the soles being so stiff they wouldn't even bend/flex. They're about the same weight as my everyday work boots but I'm not humping a pack for miles everyday either so, we'll see. I can already tell they're gonna be warm which might be the deciding factor later in the year over anything else. They sure feel great though!

And at this point the 360's are flying way better than the ST's.

Got the first 2 test arrows built this evening: ST-300 vanes on one, FFP-360's on the other. Firenock weight matched nocks installed in 9 of the 12, actual firenocks in the last 3. I have the VPA 175's on hand (pictured) and will shoot those against the 3-blade 150's when they arrive later this week. I'll go with whatever combo shoots better. Huge thanks to GotBowAz for his arrow saw and all the advice. I anticipate he and I will be having fairly regular conversations from here on out. Thanks Eric!

Picked up the ACC shafts and stripped the factory wraps off them cuz I think they ruin the simplistic awesome look of them. Plus, I want to stick the vanes directly to the shaft. Acetone ok for removing the residue? Firenocks are arriving tomorrow (Fri). VPA 175's already in hand with 150's on the way: I'm gonna shoot both to see what flies better. The 175's push the total weight to just a few grains shy of 500. Between the 2 heads my FOC sits between 13-15%. I'm also trying both FFP-360 and ST-300 vanes, again to see what flies best. I bought a right helical Bitzenberger jig and mounted it to an old cutting board. Once I decide on the vane I think I'm gonna use Flex Fletch's glue and primer, may as well keep it all together as a system... Planning to meet up with GotBowAz on Sun to get the shafts cut. Pretty excited about it all, will update after I get a few built. Thanks for everyone's input.

Elpepe, I appreciate your insight. The Kinesis and Zanskar are 2 of the boots I'm considering specifically because of the ankle support and stiff soles. On the other hand, I need them to be comfortable enough for easy walking/hiking without 80lbs on my back also. What's your experience with break in period for boots like that? When you've used them, are they too cumbersome for the hunt out of camp for the day?

Have any of you packed out an animal with the Icons? I've pretty much boiled it down to the Icons and Kifaru. I've been a Kifaru user for decades and really have no reason to stray off that path but the Icons weight and organization has me very tempted. The Kifarus are fantastic at load carrying and although it might be a little optimistic to base pack choice primarily on load carriage, it is something I'd rather think about now rather than at the moment of truth. I'm looking specifically at the Icon 5200 which shows a sling load capacity of I think, 1800cu.in.

I've used a Marauder, Pointman, and currently own a Zulu. All were used in "hunting" environments but never for elk or deer. I've found them to be fantastic and the kind of packs that tell you you'll never need anything else. I'm sure there are lighter ones out there and I've looked through the Stone Glacier website. Those are some good looking packs but I can't seem to justify spending another $400+ on another one to save maybe 8ozs. How much capacity is necessary for 3-7 days? I think this might determine whether or not I drop the coin. That Nomad has me intrigued.

Well, I stopped by Ross Outdoors today and spoke with one of the guys there for about a half hour. He was quite knowledgeable and gave me some good info. Thanks BigMike. And I've decided to build my the arrows myself. After doing a little research and with the guidance of a friend whose got some experience, I think I can get it done and have the pride of doing it myself with the attention to detail I like to see. Thanks GotBowAz. Can you guys suggest fletching and offset? I'm shooting a 70lb Bowtech Allegiance and the arrows I'm planning to build will be ACC 340's, 26.5" long with a 150gr fixed point and weighing 473gr total. I've used 2" blazers but straight fletched and with a much lighter arrow. I'm thinking about trying the Flex Fletch ST300's but this is at the suggestion of an online proshop owner. Has anyone used these or have anything positive/negative to say about them? How much offset should I use with this arrow? I'm assuming I'll need some offset with a heavier head and overall arrow.

Or I could drive up to Payson and talk to the guys at Chasin A Dream, or order them online, OR lets say I take GotBowAz's suggestion and invest in the equipment to build them myself... Just looking for opinions and the experience of those who might be willing to pay it forward. I'm a tinkerer, I like to know "why" not just "what." Appreciate the nod to that shop though, I'll check it out this week.

I'm also trying to determine which lighted nock system is best. A shop up in Payson recommended the Tracer RLi but I'm reading mixed results from other users. Having never used a lighted nock before I don't want to waste money on something that won't perform well or is unreliable. I called Easton about it also to find unit weight and warranty info and was told they have discontinued production on them. They have what they have in stock but there aren't any plans to replace with an updated product. So which one is best?

Hey GBA, I have considered it, the thought crossed my mind however I possess neither the equipment nor the knowledge to get that done. I suppose I could invest in the equipment to do so, and it is something I will do in the future but I'm looking at a fairly expensive dozen already and I can't justify, at this point, increasing that cost. On the other hand, I'm in Queen Creek also and if you're offering to help me through the process I'd be happy to buy the beer...

Thank you, I will give them a try. Any reason to head up to Payson...

Sorry guys, wrong location for this. Moved to archery forum.