208muley

Lots o little bucks near Williams. Check the pine juniper transition area. If you want a better buck get out in the cedars and glass brushy areas real hard.

Sorry about spelling or punctuation. I am not good on a keyboard. Lol

This is a subject that is gonna make me jump into the discussion. I can tell you that just complaining to complain about quality of our elk or name calling, either azgfd or each other, won't fix one thing! Solutions are! My dad always told me not to bitch about things unless you have a solution to bring to the table, so here is mine. First, for arguements sake, allow me to make some assumptions to help me prove my point. The exact numbers will very. Let's say there are three types of elk hunters, 33% cow hunter, 33% any bull hunters, and 33% trophy bull hunters. With that assumption trophy bull hunters are the minority, although very vocal! So they will never get their way for statewide elk management changes. However if trophy hunters focus there energy in the " trophy" units we MAY be sucessful. In discussions with some of my WM friends the bottom line in any management is bull/ cow ratios. Understand a bull is a bull in their minds wether it is a 4 pt or a 400". And with them killing cows like they are they also have to reduce bull numbers drastically to keep them within guidelines. Now let's use unit 10, they have averaged 1700 cow tags in that unit for years, and elk numbers show that! So in turn they raise bull tags, 600 late, 100 early, 200 archery. Now, 10 has the reputation for giants, so when guys draw the tag, no expense is spared to kill a big bull, read that, better gear, guides, teams of helpers etc making them way more efficent. So all the pressure is on the 350 bulls and the unit shows this result as there are far fewer big bulls than there was just 5 years ago. azgfd just wants dead bulls, period, but hunters want big ones in this unit. So here is my idea: with cow tags staying the same and let's say they still want 900 bull tags to kill the number of bulls to keep the numbers within guidelines, why don't we change the hunt structure to achive the same or better kill ratio. So instead of 200 arch, 100early, and 600 late, let's do 100 arch, 50 early, and 200 late. So where did the 550 tags go? Well let's start a jr bull hunt, with the same fees as the adults as it will be a "premium" elk hunt however it is limited to 5 pt or less and broke bulls don't count, or mayebe they do not sure on that one, right after the early bull adult hunt. My thought are that time would be great cause the rut is winding down and little bull get with the cows and bugle good and they are in accessible spots, not nasty canyons, and it is the same time most kids are on fall break. This will achieve a couple things. 1 azgfd won't lose any money, 2, they will get what they want which is dead bulls, a kid doesn't care if it is a spike or a giant they just want to shoot a bull their parents do, 3 trophy hunters get aw Hat they want too, less big bulls killed due to not all pressure is on big ones. Young 6pts make it thru to be big bulls! Post hunt results need to be looked at and tags for the next year need to be adjusted, also this jr bull hunt should probably be rotated between 3 units every year. Please understand all my thoughts I have not put on this thread due to I hate typing but that is the gist of my thinking. I would also ask that if you want to add your ideas or discuss this please be respectful to everyone including azgfd. I don't agree with a lot of the things they do but bashing them will get nowhere. What do you guys think and what of this idea needs to be changed? Thanks, Eric

He is licking his lips after snacking on some little neighborhood dogs and cats!

Great hunt! Envious and can't wait for my backpack hunt next year. Thanks for sharing.

It wasn't listed so I will say earplugs for the shot. One thing my daughter likes when it's cold are those insta-heat bags. Just shake em and insta heat! I like what your doing with this thread! When it's all said and done and you post a kill pic, hopefully, you should print this whole thread out and save it for your daughter. It might not be a big deal to her at first but it will be when she gets older. Good luck on the hunt!

Just an update after the purchase. Went out today to figure out what my moa adjustment is for my turret. I sighted in at 100 at ben avery and had .5 or better with the nosler 140gr accubonds. Figured I might as well stay with them if they shoot that good. So out to the desert we went at aprox 4500' . To say the results made me happy is an understatement! I was .5 moa or better all the way to 700! I want to thank my buddy Jeff, who really knows these guns, for being there to coach this rookie how to set up and shoot this rifle. With a lot more practice and maybe working up a load it's kinda cool to think about how good this gun may shoot. Anyways, I guess all I need is for a whitey to step out anywhere inside 700 and he will be in trouble.. Thanks for the education everybody and good hunting.

First let me say, I have been a bow hunter, except one strip deer hunt and I borrowed a gun, for the past 20 years or so. But with my family hunting now I have decided to get back into rifle hunting Coues deer again. So where do I start? I want to be able to kill at the 500-600 yd range and have fun practicing at much further range! I used to practice at 100-120 yards with a bow to make 50-60 yds feel like a chip shot. So I have a ruger m77 7mm mag bone stock. I know the caliber is way good but is this rifle good enough? Do I keep the action and build around it including change out the barrel? I am also going to hand load, don't know a dang thing about that either, but that is another topic. Or do I just get a whole new set up. I am not lucky enough to work with unlimited funds so I would like to keep it under 4k for gun and scope if I can. So what say you guys. Can you help a brother out!? Thanks, Eric

Has anyone noticed if their point of impact or group size changed for the worse after putting a bipod on? How about at further ranges say 5-700 yds?

Carp! His brow tines are a dead givaway. Wrong angle off the main beam. Kill him and take a sample to a biologist to find out. No matter what the species is you will stil have a dead deer and that's the best part. Good luck!

What time of year is your hunt? Which hunt do you have? Whatis the weather doing that day? Early season when it's hot you are best served looking on north and east slopes. November, with all the pressure from hunters look in the thickest stuff possible and look for them bedded. Dec look on southern, western, Eastern slopes. The later in dec it gets start looking for where the does are. If it gets super cold glass the sun line. Amazing how many deer will stand when the sun hits em when it's cold. What I just said applies to more mature bucks, little ones can be found with does anywhere. And if the wind is really blowing on any slope then what I said previously doesn't apply. They HATE the wind and will ALWAYS be out of a big wind, all their senses are weaker and since pretty much everything eats em including squirrels , haha, a strong wind moves em to less windy spots. I could get more specific but that's what I think in a nutshell.

I put down 8 archery on the poll BUT the early rifle multi-unit is pretty darn good if you know where to look.. And a lot less people in a big chunk of dirt! Peaks rifle is super tough but can be very rewarding. 22s ml is the biggest sleeper in the state but you have to know where to look. One you haven't mentioned but is just like 8 for points needed is 7w.... Can be a fantastic hunt for 330-360 type bulls with occasional whopper in there.. Good luck with your choices....

If you are thinking about a guide, two words Greg Koons... The man is awesome on the cabeza.

Refreshing to hear someone put priority on family vs a giant bull. I like it! Drop me a pm, I have hunted and guided in that unit for over 20 yrs. you gotta earn a big boy but if a 300ish bull floats your boat i got a bunch of spots you can go and who knows maybe get a much better bull than 300.

Is the .270 sold? Can't tell with the last few posts.

How about a score on that bad boy!?

I personally wouldn't worry too much around the baca and the jjj ranch. Hunt as close as you can. Both ranches are very well posted especially the float. The jjj has some land posted that is questionable.. If it is call the wm for the unit and let him know exactly the spot in question. I did this a few years ago guiding an antelope hunt. I got approached by chads guys and they were all pissed that I was in there but a quick call to the wm and a very short convo with the guys we continued on our way legally hunting an area that I wanted to hunt. Killed a great buck too. Remember in the state of az the burden falls on the landowner to post his land PROPERLY and on land that is legal to post! Good luck to your son!

Bozarth Mesa, Goodwin Mesa. Especially around the edges. But if all else fails Goodwin Mesa. If you can figure out how to get around the private property, north of Goodwin is really good!

You can get on the "BO" right now. Also the land that is private is well marked and you will know it. Remember the burden is on the land owner to post their land PROPERLY if it is private. This is not new Mexico!

Pm sent darr.

Thanks for the review. This is the pack I'm looking at getting for backpacking Coues deer. As there isn't a place to try before you buy, I have a couple questions. Do you think the carbon frame is tough enough to handle the abuse of coming out heavy with gear and a boned out whitey as compared to an "h" frame? Does it flex too much with heavy weight? 70-90 lbs. is the fabric tough enough to handle the az brush from catclaw to manzanita etc? How did you like the lumbar pad? I've heard it has a "weird" feeling.. I just wish there was a place in north phx or anywhere in az for that matter that I could try before I buy. Anyways, thanks in advance. Eric

Her site her rules. Period. My bet is this forum gets real quiet as we all know hunters don't talk or become active in political things about hunting till its to late, then complain like crazy after the fact. My personal opinion is that any political talk should be allowed as long as it stays civil and no name calling. Jmho

So what kind of scope, brand, reticle, power etc should I put on my gun no matter what I end up getting? I have heard that leupold 8.5x20 is good. I also have heard vortex makes a good one. Huskema and night force are probably out due to price. I know that I will have a turrets on it. Is a level important? The advice I got about guns was great so now how about some on the glass? Thanks guys, Eric.

So I did some research thanks to 308nut, and the gun checks out fine. I was offered a great deal on this gun, perfect for backpacking coues deer, and It has never been shot so I bought it. It is getting bedded and floated as we speak. With that said, I have a rem 700 in 30/06 that I may decide to build off of if I really enjoy shooting the 280ai. This gun thing is somewhat new to me as for the last 20 yrs I have been, minus one deer, a bow hunter. Wish me luck guys and thanks for all the education, between this thread and the one on scopes I have learned a ton!

Great info amigos! thanks Eric