HuntHarder

Hey Buffhunter, not to derail the original topic, but another scenario I have seen on an arrow getting snapped off without hitting any trees was a few years ago on an archery bull hunt. I was calling for a buddy and he hit an elk low in the shoulder/leg and got enough penetration to go thru the edge of the shoulder/leg, but not enough to get thru the entire brisket/ cavity. Shot was low, but we watched the bull take a step after being shot and his arrow fall out with, if I remember right, 4" of arrow missing. The sound was unmistakable, shoulder shot. Loud Thwack with 0 penetration.

Grab that Bell and Carlson on here. Great stock!!

Mt. Trumbull is a good starting point.

It is clearly 26m, I hunt that exact area and if you go on AZGF and look at 26m boundaries it will encompass the stretch you are talking about.

26M

I am with two-windy, the definition says AND produced for the livestock industry. I think this might be another GREY area that is up to the interpretation of the officer. I tend to error on the side of caution and would not consider trophy rock produced for the livestock industry, but produced for hunters. Trophy rock is a weird attractant in which, it is not actually manufactured. This is really a rock that they mine from the earth in Colorado. So I guess after a little research, This is not actually Manufactured, so I guess getting something in writing about this attractant would be a good thing to obtain from AZGFD to be safe.

I put my little brother in for a junior deer tag on the extra day and he drew a tag that is less than 50% draw odds.

You mean 20B right?

Gotbow's scenario is definitely plausible. What kind of equipment was he shooting?

Great Video!! Absolute stud bulls in there. Good luck this season!

I have century link, and used to have Cox. I will never have cox again. I agree that their internet is faster, but for home internet, century link is good. They just upped the speeds in my neighborhood a few months ago, and when I tested it online, it hit the speed they claim. Century link's upload speed is bad, but their download speed is adequate for most. After having them bundled with direct TV for years, I am able to call every 6 months and let them know that I am not going to pay their full price. They then give you a Loyality discount and my bill literally is almost cut in half. kind of a pain to have to call every 6 months, but well worth the $400 savings I incur.

Have you ever cleaned an elk? What other explanation do you give for 0 penetration. Surely you do not attribute the blades opening on a rage broad head to losing all penetration. I do not care if you are shooting practice blades on the rage broadhead, at 10-20 yards, if you hit an elk broadside, you will get more penetration than that. Have you listened to the loud THWACK! That is the worse sound in the world to hear while elk hunting. If you hit an elk in the vitals and avoid all shoulder, it sounds like a hollow sound. Looks like a low shoulder/leg hit. I am not a rage fan by any means, but many bulls have been killed with 350 grain arrows and expandables.

A shoulder hit on a bull is never going to be a good thing with a bow. The odds of finding a bull after shooting it in the shoulder with a bow are well below 50% with any broad head. Sucks he lost this bull, but a poor shot at close range is the reason, not the broad head.

Kitten- A young cat. Young- in an early stage of life, growth or development. : not yet old Seems pretty easy to interpret the definition of Kitten as to what was in the picture. Pretty vague definition. Anyone who has ever followed hounds and treed lions will agree those are MOST likely kittens. I do not agree with the law that they are not huntable, but the way the law is written, those KITTENS are not.

I Agree completely, too many whiners on these forums. Want someone to hold their hand thru life and can not figure out how to get it done for themselves. Oh, and the results will be posted by the deadline set forth by AZGFD. I do not think they have ever got results out later than the published date in the regs. If we find out early ( them charging our cards) it is just a bonus.

346 gr Victory arrow tipped with a razor sharp 100 gr Wac em' Triton. 446 grains of THWACK!!!

My guess would be fraud alerts by banks. In the last 5 years, I have had my card cancelled for my protection because of possible fraud within the banking system. They just cancel your card without you knowing and before the effective date, your new card, with new #, arrives at your house. Good thing, except when it happens in between putting in and the draw actually happening. This is the risk we take using credit cards. Had it happen to me for a spring draw, and I lost my loyalty point for Javi's ( like it matters). I was irked, but was very glad it was not during the fall or elk and antelope draw. Or as pwrguy said, it could be the majority of Americans living above their means. Champagne taste with a Pabst blue ribbon wallet.

YES!!!

Assuming he has a 1-9 twist barrel( recommended by matrix for the 165), which he doesn't. It is 1-10. And also assuming this one bullet shoots good out of his gun... Look at more practical yardages like 500 yards, the 300wsm using your info has 200 more FT/lbs of energy. From muzzle to 1000 yards, the 300wsm has more energy. Since the OP said he doesn't reload, and could if he had too, suggests he is not wanting to reload unless he has to. Commercially available ammo suggests the 300 WSM has more options with better ballistics. Will the 270WSM do fine? Absolutely. I can not say I know anyone who shoots the 175 matrix out of a .277. If you do, they recommend a 1-8 twist barrel which is probably only achievable with a custom barrel. To each his own, but the only way a 270wsm keeps up with the 300wsm in the energy dept. is by reloading a few bullets. Go to any major ammunition company's page and compare energy's.

DB!!!!!

300WSM Hands down... Especially if you do not reload. atleast you have the option of going heavy for larger game on bullets. As far as wind drift goes, they are both going to be pretty close depending on how the comparison goes. Obviously if you compare a 165 .277 cal and a 165 .308 cal, the .277 has a better BC. Having said that, the reason guys shoot 30's is the option to shoot a heavy bullet that bucks the wind and delivers good energy. Look at downrange energy of the 2 at longer ranges. Both are great options, but if you have the ability to build a great gun for deer AND larger animals, Go with the .30 and do not limit yourself.

I owned one covert, and will not own another. Nothing but problems....

Usually h4831 is around $36-37$ plus tax at Brunos. Online or at sportsmans, you can find it for $28-$31. I think either this is the main reason they usually have the most powder in stock in the valley or the fact that they are a small shop and not known by most.

Anyone else get pissed every time they buy powder at Bruno's? I am usually in absolute need, So I regrettably spend the money they want. Since this powder shortage, I have found that I can buy the stuff cheaper online including the HAZMAT fees, than I can at Bruno's. I am all for supporting local stores, but his mark ups are ridiculous!!!

Since they are calling declined cards again, I doubt we know anything until end of week, probably more like early the week after.