My Rights As An American

That is because you practice a ton. Archery shooting is both cerebral but becomes quite instinctive over time and consistency. Archers must always remember the cerebral aspects, however, because the variables exacerbate over distance. Practice helps a ton, but I also believe that certain distances exceed an archers capabilities for lots of reasons. My personal limit is 50. It is our obligation to ensure humane harvests of our game. Anything less is unacceptable as true hunters. I think our conversation, although a wonderful insight into distance shooting and personal limits, is an unfortunate off-spin of assumptions made into the original intent of this thread, which was to try to reunite a hunter with a harvested bull. The original intent was quite noble and ended up in the successful reunion which should be commended, but some assumptions were made during this journey that divested from the purpose. I think many people intentionally or not assumed that this bull was lost due to a poorly placed arrow due to long distance shooting or the likes. Sadly, losing an animal, even a well-placed kill shot, comes with hunting. I think the assumptions quickly blew up, unfortunately and led to an off-shoot discussion of the limits of archery shooting.

9. Animal movement is exxagerated MUCH more at longer distances. Sure, animals can jump the string at any range, but the time it takes an arrow to get 90 yards versus 10 yards is so significant that it cannot be overlooked or poopooed away as not a major variable. Animals cannot "jump the string" at 10 yards to the point that you hit them in the hind quarters or generally gut shoot them. That becomes a significant concern at 90 yards.

trphyhntr, Please do not take my comments as negative towards you. They are not. What I am saying is that MY confidence level is maxed out at 50 yards, and I would not take further shots. I am just as confident at 60 as I am at 90, of not being 100% confident in the most humane shot possible due to the variables such as: 1. Wind-just like a bullet, will exponentially change the impact point over longer ranges than shorter ranges. Everyone knows this with bullets and can compensate, but how many archers know how to compensate for wind at longer ranges? 2. Buck fever-cannot be measured. 3. Elevation--Sure, everyone shoots their bow a lot at their house or their range, but how many have shot at the elevation they will be actually hunting in? For elk, that can easily range from 4,000 feet to 10,000 in this state. Arrows WILL fly differently at 4,000 than they will at 10,000. 4. Arrow weight and broadhead weight can weigh heavily at longer distances making the drop much more pronounced. 5. Broadhead type--expandable vs. fixed. How does it fly at 20 yards versus 90? How does it penetrate thicker hides? Will it blast through small bones at 20 yards but stop dead at 90 yards due to less energy? 6. Weather--is it sunny and hot? Is it raining? Is it cloudy? They can wreak much more havoc at longer distances. 7. Vision--Can you see that twig at 20 yards? How about that one at 89 yards? 8. Energy--Significant drop in energy remaining in the arrow from 10 yards to 90 yards. Really not trying to do anything other than answer your question. I am comfortable out to 50 yards, not 60 not 90. Too many variables make those longer shots much more difficult to be a humane shot, IMHO. You asked for variables, I provided some very reasonable variables that I believe limit MY comfort level.

Me too, that is why my personal limit is 50 yards. Far too many variables past that for all archers on a live target, IMHO.

Man, I was just kidding about knocking people off to move up the list, but hey, if it works it works!

Definitely want in line for this one. Sounds like I am fourth? Who do I have to knock off to move up the list?

Ttt one last time.

ttt

All PMs returned. Please do not make me put this thing up on another website! Keep 'er here, keep 'er happy!!!!

Yes, but have you broken them in yet with cool people, drinks and cards?

Definitely willing to entertain reasonable offers. May entertain some trades with cash included. Cash is definitely king, and it goes straight to the Queen of the house!

I have bought something from Vince in the past and he was wonderful to deal with. We both kept open, honest communication and the deal went exceptionally smoothly, even with mailing the item. If all of his transactions were the same way, I would do business with him again if that helps anybody. Free bump for someone I have dealt with before.

Pic of trigger is deceiving. The big bare spots are glare and not chips. The very small spots are the two small scratches. Sorry, bad at pics.

Live near BassPro and can also meet in downtown Phoenix area if you want to see this sweet gun!

The fur may not be prime yet, but there is definitely money there to be had. If the skull is not crushed, there is another source of money. In its prime that is easily a few hundred dollars. Someone jump on this or I may get all redneck and go out there.

Prime bobcat furs have been fetching a major premium last few years as I understand it! A few hundred dollars if done correctly and thick fur. Still early for a great thick skin and fur, but I am no expert.

Aaaaahhhh, it is never pick on TJ day! You are far too nice of a guy!!! Besides, you were smart enough to marry well!

Great guy to deal with. He just needs to stand behind that bag more often to show his best side! Is that bag really that big or are you that short? Sorry TJ, had to in order to give you a free bump!!!

Sorry, pics not great. The trigger guard shows two of three minor scrapes. Third one on other side. Otherwise, gun is in great condition!!! Action locks tight.

Gary is a great guy to deal with and does fantastic work! Great to see your work on here and such great responses!,!

Nice pics buddy! That 2x1 has my name written all over it though, sorry!!!

Very good price on a very good gun!!! Should sell quickly at that price. Free bump.

Welcome to the site. First place to look for information is always going to the Arizona Game and Fish game management unit information. This will get you started on places to start researching through maps and going out to check out first hand. Good luck!

Thank you to the following: CMC for bringing this issue up for all to discuss and volunteer if they believe in the project. Ben for coming on here and bringing excellent facts and insight. A brilliant and astute theory on why the herd declined beginning in 1986. Amazing how a single incident from one ram could be blamed as a major contributor for the entire wipe out of that herd. May not have been the only factor, but a major factor nonetheless. Everyone for all of the opinions expressed pro and con for this project. I can see both sides of the issue. In an effort to ensure future success, if the project were to progress, it is absolutely imperative that the science and research be whole and accurate to ensure success or study the failure. In my opinion, if the science is quality and the possibility exists to reintroduce this incredible herd species back to this area, I am all for it. As a hunter and taxpayer, I believe it is our absolute responsibility to shepherd projects that ensure our future access to a more balanced ecosystem that allows us to be part of the ecosystem and harvest animals but also replenish them through good quality healthy ecosystem management. There are so many success stories that we need to consider: whitetailed deer were almost wiped out but have rebounded through sound management; goulds turkey; merriams turkey; elk (all subspecies); bison; eagles; etc. However, for every success story lies a failure, and if we have not learned why the failure existed, we are doomed to repeat it again at much cost and effort. As hunters, we must be good stewards of the land its resources. If done properly, the success stories can be almost too good to be true. The big question in this case, will it be done properly? What caused the failure in the first place? Does the science support this reason? What will be done to prevent the reason for the failure from occuring again? These are the questions that must be answered prior to the expense and effort of reintroduction. A successful reintroduction will lead to increased hunter opportunity, increased population size for future transplant and herd growth (read: more hunter opportunity again!), public enjoyment of the resource (my kids would get to see bighorn sheep roaming the range again), etc. A failed reintroduction will always lead to an "I told you so!!!".

Cabelas has them on sale, a Caldwell, for $19.99. Good quality, well worth the price. I think I may pick one or two up for that price.