WampusCat

I have been watching a lot of videos posted on the interweb this season where the hunter needed 3-4 shots to anchor what they are shooting at. More people trying the long range game or just more people with video capability this year?

My only complaint is they are pretty much for prone shooting. AZ doesnt always lend itself to prone. I get prone when able, but it seems there is always a bush, rock, funny angle, or other terrain that forces a sitting position. I find myself in the sitting positon with a longer harris fully extended when predaor hunting. Other than the height, I think they are the best out there.

No problem. I'm no expert but I have seen a lot of fmj's hit stuff and do crazy things. Glad this post sorted itself out.

Great job. First of many I hope.

The one in the picture is a heavy 20" I built. Its a bit heavy to lug after the first couple miles but I still do it. I would recommend a mid weight 18" barrel.

Barrel twist rate will be your limiting factor on how heavy you can go in the 223. Lots of slower twist older rifles out there designed to shoot the 55 gr stuff. I stick with the 75-77 gr pills for long pokes but I believe that 64 gr bonded Nosler would be a great little Coues round when properly guided through the pump station. Id be happy to get you a starting place on some heavier loads when you decide to try.

Please understand I do not want to argue the subject but since you asked I will try to help see it from a different angle. I am also not advocating breaking the law but believe game managers are able to make rational decisions in the field. True most bullets start their journey with the bulk of the weight to the rear along their longitudinal centerline. There are exceptions like the ones you mentioned and more, but the difference is what happens after impact. Hardcast lead being a different subject all together. 1. The one thing for certain when talking about bullet performance is that nothing is certain. 2. Bullets designed to expand and deliver/impart their energy into the target do so at such a rapid rate that the nose (meplat) begins to deform (mushroom) and the shape that induces the yaw is gone before it happens. 3. The fmj shape doesn't so easily deform and thus the heavier rear will normally attempt to overtake the lighter front end. This yaw or tumble creates a notable cavitation. Add in a bone or two and many times the force is great enough to tear the bullet apart. 4. Rifling spins a bullet to stabilize it. When that bullets enters tissue that spin is not sufficient to continue the stabilization and the bullet will begin to yaw. The depth in the tissue that yaw begins is a huge variable dependant on unlimited different variables; thickness of mass traveling through, bone impacts, tissue density, see #1 5. In some cases (usually short range) the bullet attempts to yaw and is stressed enough to seperate the jacket from the core and fragment. It is my belief that what is the right tool for the masses is not always right for everyone. We can argue about high velocity FMJ rifle bullets for fox and coyote being ethical yet there are people shooting elk in the hind quarters with archery equipment? Bottomline... Know the capabilties of you and your equipment and operate inside those limits.

A 75gr Hornady BTHP leaving the muzzle at 2850 fps from a .223 worked just fine on this one when it connected on the other side of the canyon a couple years ago.

To answer your question... YES, 5.56 will damage fox. This topic will bring a hundred different opinions from a hundred different guys. When I think varmint bullet, I think vaporizing P-dogs or exploding jacks. Not the same quality i seek out for a fur bullet. When a screaming fast V-Max hits a shoulder blade or rib it violently expands (like it was designed to) but it does it right on the surface of the pelt. We call this a splash. I stood there in awe a few times staring at baseball size entrace holes from .20 and .22 cal projectiles. Also should be noted that just because a bullet is "hollowpoint" doesnt mean it is of the expanding variety. Match hollowpoints are typically a byproduct of bullet manufacturing. (filling jacket with lead from the nose instead of base) Not designed to expand and typically do not. Some guys like to sew but not walk 20 extra yards to grab the odd dog that got a few extra steps in before running out of gas and will reccomend larger calibers. I seem to drift down to smaller and smaller calibers and try to take well aimed shots. I used a .17 hornet all last season and never lost a critter that absorbed one of those little pills. I was not calling contests but trying to fill stretchers. I am sold on that little CZ for coyotes and smaller inside 200 yds. I have found lead BBs out of shotguns .22 mags and .17 cals are gonna treat your fox pelts the best. As always your mileage may vary.

I never saw the other post mentioned but I can imagine the "expert opinions" that chimed in. I am sorry your son experienced that from this site but this is just another part of the real world and I am sure he hasnt had his last taste of knuckleheads. Hope its a learning point for him and he doesnt get down about it. Most of these "experts" would be surprised to know what actually happens when a military style full metal jacket with its center of gravity well toward it's rear travels through a "mass".

Heck of a meat buck. Glad I could go on the hunt with the play by play. Congrats. I can think of a few bucks/critters that normally would have been passed but friends or family along for the hunt made the decision to shoot easy.

Congrats to your dad. I like the OpSec in the photo. Guilty of it myself a couple times. Too often those honey holes are few and far between.

Good for you! Hope its not another 20 yrs before you do it again.

What a great looking deer!

Post some pics and your review. I hve been looking at that or the 7200 for a while now.

Found this and a host of other wild colored ones from greens and blues to reds on my 2012 Coues hunt.

Awesome post! Thanks for sharing. There something be said for a rifle taking a spill into the Frisco and holding zero. I enjoyed the photos , especially that spike and rifle. I am used to carrying everything on my back. Those mules look like the only way to do it. Makes me think how far a guy could get back in the Blue.

A cat will have the tell tale "W" in the back of the main pad. That picture looks like a domestic dog. Maybe another bird hunter was there?

I think I see it, but can't get a clear enough image. Mt Graham is a great place.

The trophy is the memory of that hunt. That good lookin mount is a great reminder of that memory. Glad you got it done. Looks like a trophy from here.

Keep an eye out for quality used stuff on here in the classified after hunting season. Lots of good people going different routes on optics and sellling to make room for something else. Those 10x Vipers are plenty capable until then!

Thats awesome buddy. I think those Vipers are great glass at that price point. Mine never left the truck. They dont get the "Im too scared to scratch my Swaros" treatment as my other pair, and they have held up great the last few seasons. Even when "friends" borrowed them. Glad you got some nice glass. I never had to use their warranty, but Ive heard its the best there is.

Great read! A Wyoming goat trip is on the list when I get back. Good on you for hiking in DIY and for helping those fellas out. I enjoyed the pictures as well.

Anybody out there shooting one? Would like to know your thoughts on it. Cant find much on the net about them. I have always admired the Savannah and the stealth is supposed to be a "glare free" version for hunting.