migolito

Ok KG, Since you asked. Read what Dave said. He gets it! Just to add to his well reasoned thoughts. Organize, organize, organize. I mean it. Organize beyond what you think you need to organize. Make a commitment to take 50% of the time you would be out chasing game to organize and advocate. Get your kids, your fellow hunters, your NRA, your Rifle hunters, bowhunters, slingshot hunters, bird hunters, whatever, get them together...and form a Political Action Committee PAC. Make sure your at every function that has anything to do with fishing and hunting. Make yourselves a force to be reconed with. No game/fisheries planning should happen without your input and advice. Let every elected official, from the dog catcher to the governor know who you are. STOP thinking of other hunters as adversarial, even if they are from a communist state like mine. Think of your hunting rights in a much broader way, out of staters are not your enemy. Our rights are intertwined. Every time any hunters rights are limited, eventually, yours will be too. Your seeing that happen right now, aren't you? I have warned you about what will happen in your state, because it has already happened in mine. For gods sake learn from my(Californias) experience. Don't think it won't happen to you, because as you have just seen, it already is. Lastly, for every day you spend hunting or fishing, you should be spending a day advocating. I know it sounds harsh, but, if you really wan't your kids and your grand kids to hunt, its the only hope. I truly wish you the best of luck. M

I don't see where the system they have now is broke, and if it isn't broke don't fix it, if money is the reason behind it, then come out and say it and charge me more, I would except that a lot better than the the simple lie that they are trying to create more opportunity. And it begins! M

KGaines, You need to remove your tag line from Gen. Patton below all your posts. Even though he was a Californian he didn't just fight for California. He understood the fight was much bigger than that. And, unlike you, he never settled for a truce with those who would take away his freedom....

Ok DesrtBull I'll answer your question about California. California is all screwed up. We not only limit tags to non-residents, we limit them to residents based not on sound animal/habitat management, but, on political consideration. California is currently considering prohibiting fishing in our nearshore(3 miles) fisheries for much of the state. Please note I did say prohibit. This based on soley political consideration as no science supports the concept and it was voted on by, you guessed it, our state legislature. California voters(with the help of many misinformed hunters groups) banned mountain lion hunting several years ago and set aside several hundred million dollars to "preserve" mountain lions. Of course these non-endangered mountain lions soon outgrew thier habitat and have devastated the deer population and almost completely eliminated several clans of desert bighorn sheep. ALL doe hunts in California are strictly authorized, not by science or our Depatment of Fish and Game, but, by each county board of supervisors. Have you noticed a consistent theme in my diatribe? Our (California) wildlife are quite literally controlled 100% by polititions, not by science and not by an independent Department of Fish and Game ! Do you feel better now? Now back to your(Arizona) problem. You have ignorantly and arrogantly invited a political answer to a non existent problem. Worse yet, you proudly defend your ignorant choice. You have been sold a bill of goods under the guise of 'Arizona for Arizonians!'. If you think for a minute that that wasn't the same way it happened here first, think again. It also happened in Montana, Colorado, Utah, Idaho, etc. Each and every time the long term impact has resulted in LESS hunting for residents and non-residents because funding was lost due to less hunters, less tourism, and what was left was reallocated to cover non-game species care and feeding. You Arizonians have decided to close your border so dang tight that you failed to look around at your neighboring states to see the ill effect after they did what your state is considering doing now. Your so dang intent on defending your position with blind patriotic passion that your screwing your kids out of a hunting future. Hunters numbers have never been so low. Hunting rifle sale, equipment, clothing have never been so low, despite huge population growth. You, not your moronic polititions, are setting in motion a course of action out of your knee jerk "geez, sounds good to me..." reaction that can only lead one place. If you want to know where that place is...look west at California. Frankly, if this is an example of hunters opinions and depths of thought in Arizona, you have already lost. M

In a recent issue of NSSF?s ?Bullet Points? weekly news bulletin, there were links to stories about the hunting decline. For example, one editorial in The Portland Oregonian lamented that thousands of Beaver State hunters have quit because they could no longer justify the cost, and because they were faced with ?phone-book-thick regulations? and a ?blizzard of no-trespassing signs.? They have also been discouraged by a management scheme that established limited-entry tag drawings ?which break up hunting parties and keep many eager hunters at home every fall.? You may as well add Arizonas scheme to limit non-residents to the NSSFs bulletin. I'm sure the Oregan hunters embrassed thier own schemes as much as some of you advocate limiting non-residents in Arizona now. M

"Can't we all just get along" ...Rodney King ( a great Californian) We have certainly already lost the fight if this is your response. If we hunters allow, and even encourage, our states to manage our game based on political (protectionist) expediency, our hunting rights are doomed and the clock is running. My facitious example of a 10% excise tax on goods bound for Arizona has blinded you to how real such a thing is and how harmfull and distructive it is. Can you not see that you are advocating such a "tax" on me by your idea to limit access to "your" animals? By limiting hunting to any person, resident or not, you are setting in motion a chain of events which will inevitably and consequently end your access to the same animals you have chosen to limit me from. In otherwords, you limit me today, tommorrow you will be limited. Here's the next idea; Lets take the robertson/roos tax on sporting goods and distribute it according to population, or by where that tax is collected. That means California, with 10% of the population will receive 10% of that money. Also, shouldn't California receive 10% of all federal wildlife funds? Shouldn't federal BLM and National Forest money be spent where there is equal access to the resources that graze on Federal land, consequently, shouldn't states that choose to limit that access be limited in those funds? If that happened Arizona would have to roll up the carpet on hunting. Do you see where I'm going yet? Once, the anti's get US battling each other and convincing US to act in a protectionist way, we all lose!! You have been blinded by your own short term self interest in advocating such a protectionalist plan. You have opened pandoras box. M

Brilliant move for Arizona hunters!! Unfortunately, I live in California. I'll be asking my state legislature to add a 10% tax to all products that move into our ports that are bound for Arizona. Once you get it into your thick heads that its a divide and conquer tactic against hunters and that YOUR kids will not be hunting because of your boneheaded lack of forsight, it'll be too late. Ask Colorado what happened when they increased thier fees several years ago. Outta staters stopped hunting there in record numbers, the Colorado Div. of Wildlife lost massive revenue, therefore lost biologists, wardens, and money to litigate to stop anti's, etc. Thier attempt at PROTECTIONALISM was a costly(almost fatal) mistake. But, you go ahead and skip and whistle down that road too. Every single state that has limited Non-residents has lost massive amouts of revenue that has ultimately resulted in less habitat management, which resulted in less animals, which resulted in less hunters pursuing those less animals, which is resulting in yours kids not hunting. For gods sake wake up!!! M