SilentButDeadly

you have 5 pairs of light hiking shoes that are falling apart from the hundreds of miles you've walked looking for sheds...

how about this equation: there is X amount of copper in the hills around Rosemont, which is worth Y amount of dollars. Y is computed by adding up the sales of X as its value changes over Time, T, adjusting for inflation, i. Say, after 40 years the mine runs out of copper the total value of the mine will have been reached. Now, since deer hunting, and recreation don't always have absolute dollars, Y, associated with them, you can do a relative value (like willingness-to-pay to use the land or hunt, etc), call that W, and compute that over T, adjusted for inflation, i. The difference is that time, T, for recreation is forever, you can use that land for an infinite amount of time. So what is W*i * Infinity? Answer = INFINITY The value of the land for natural resources is like the Tortoise and the Hare.... The slow low dollar return (Tortoise = Recreation) vs the fast high dollar return (Hare = Mining). So, what do you think: Mine, baby, Mine? = Couple hundred million$$ OR Leave it be? = Infinite$$

David, I'm sure it was far... I don't get to pick up elk sheds without at least a 3 hour drive on either end, so its always a treat to see them. It looks like an unbelievable shed! Hard to tell how big though, what did the 5ths look like? The 1-3s look huge for the length of the beam. I hope its still there waiting for you when you get a chance to go look for it again. T ps, maybe the other side is laying in those mesquites!! pps, don't keep me waiting too long to find out the end of this story!

how far exactly is too far? I think for that shed I'd be willing to drive from Tucson right now. Tyson

Here are a couple short videos of me finding sheds out in the Palo verdes. The first video is from a month ago, a real weirdo; spoon shaped end on the main beam, twisted tine, split eye guard. Never seen the buck on the hoof. The second half of the video is of a couple young bucks I've been watching from velvet to hard horned... http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/kRCjBGfMdYZD_DraJm5_2Q The second video is of a shed I found this morning. A really nice 80ish inch buck with a bladed g2 and a bladed main beam that hints at a future dropper (maybe!). http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/WgIO-pDulKEzpsrPjulncg

there are a few videos in my folders, you're all welcome to look at them. T

awesome bucks... Maybe the one caught a bullet with his ears pinned back? T

mee-ouch!

Whatever, Mr. I'll just post the future winning photo of the 'Spirit of Coue's hunting' and not even mention anything about how awesome it is. Seriously, that one wins. too bad about the cat. T

waawhooo!

awesome looking buck!

As it came to me: *Black bears typically have two cubs, rarely one or three. In 2007, in northern New Hampshire , a black bear sow gave birth to five healthy young. There were two or three reports of sows with as many as four cubs but five was, and is, extraordinary. I learned of them shortly after they emerged from their den and set myself a goal of photographing all five cubs with their mom, no matter how much time and effort was involved. * *I knew the trail they followed on a fairly regular basis, usually shortly before dark. After spending nearly four hours a day, seven days a week, for six weeks I had that once in a lifetime opportunity and photographed them in the shadows and dull lighting of the evening. Due to these conditions the photograph is a bit “noisy” as I had to use the equivalent of a very fast film speed on my digital camera. The print is properly focused and well exposed with all six bears “posing” as if they were in a studio for a family portrait. * *I stayed in touch with other people who saw the bears during the summer and into the fall hunting season. All six bears continued to thrive. As time for hibernation approached, I found still more folks who had seen them and everything remained OK. I stayed away from the bears as I was concerned that they might become habituated to me, or to people in general, as approachable “friends”. This could be dangerous for both man and animal. After Halloween I received no further reports and could only hope the bears survived until they hibernated. * *This spring, before the snow disappeared, all six bears came out of their den and wandered the same familiar territory they trekked in the spring of 2007. I saw them before mid April and dreamed nightly of taking another “family portrait,” an improbable second “once in a lifetime” photograph. On April 25, 2008 I achieved my dream. When I showed the result to a woman who had purchased a print of the cubs a year earlier she exclaimed, “I have never seen such an extraordinary photograph”. When something as magical as this happens between man and animal Native Americans say: “We have walked together in the shadow of a rainbow.” And so it is with humility and great pleasure that I share these photos with you. * *Sincerely, Tom Sears * 2007 Family Portrait! 2008 Family Portrait

I just read a couple of articles that really got my hackles up. For months now Republicans have been chanting 'Drill, Baby, Drill!!' --- and now the Bush administration in its final death throws is pushing through legislation to allow oil and gas drilling next to a couple of the crown jewels of the National Park Service, Arches and Canyonlands National Parks. IMO these permits and the roads/infrastructure to be developed will not only put at risk NPS sites but will also seriously impact hunting in Utah and Colorado (and any other western state where they go up). And BTW, the Feds have a history of using tax payer dollars to build these roads (often at taxpayer loss -- See Tongass NF http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongass_National_Forest ) To me this is pure politics, not partisan, as a sportsman and conservationist I am at a loss to explain how my fellows can support this. The greatest threat to hunting is not global warming, gun control, environmentalists, or vegans, it is DEVELOPMENT!! The equation is pretty easy to understand, more people = less land for each of us to walk around on; the more you develop that land the less land to share with more people. Less land, more people the greater the outcry for 'protection', Public Forest land will become so valuable that it will be converted to National Monument, then to National Park. I want to hear your perspectives. Tyson http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008...-drilling-utah/ http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/07/opinion/...amp;oref=slogin http://www.blm.gov/ut/st/en/prog/energy/oi...d_gas_faqs.html

Sundevil79, are you saying you are for the development of the Rosemont mine? I'd like to hear your perspective. Its obvious tommat uses this area for recreation; do you use that area to hunt? How would you feel if your (or another) company decided to develop your favorite hunting area? I understand the defensiveness about your job, and tommat's comments were insensitive, however I think the majority (maybe I'm wrong) of the people on this forum would rather see an area such as Rosemont conserved for hunting, rather than developed. Tyson

did you get any photos? picture = 1k words anybody got photos of the new kinder-morgan pipeline here in AZ? Looks like its over a 100 yard wide... they did cursory repair job, moved a bunch of rocks into the middle of it. reminded me of an Ed Abbey quote: ""Of course I litter the public highway. Every chance I get. After all, it's not the beer cans that are ugly; it's the highway that is ugly."

I know, they were the worst, and they bankrupted themselves through poor business management...

Its the idea of a 'fire sale' on the permits that has me upset; I'm certain that a NEPA analysis has gone into this (which means that it likely won't affect the park directly). The Feds have a history of quickly unloading public land to developers if it is in the Politician's interests (Gail Norton former Secretary of the Interior is now a VP of Shell Oil?? I'd call that a red flag!) I'm taking a Natural Resource Economics class right now that is going over the history of the Tongass NF; that place got F@$%ed! They fire sold some of the oldest most productive temperate rainforest in Alaska for chump change (actually for the price of a cheeseburger = $2 = 1 thousand year old Sitka spruce). As a result the blacktail population crashed, the hillsides sluffed off, and the salmon streams were destroyed. The risk is that Utah and Color Country are at stake this time, not some remote island forest in the North Pacific. Thanks for keeping up the discussion. T

DB - Multiple use is what USFS does with its land and renewable resources; Non-renewable resources are different, BLM is managing for the greatest good of the American people (not the recreationalists, hunters, etc who use the land). That means that hunting can be negatively impacted and its too bad for us -- the rest of America needs their oil and gas more than we need to hunt! As far as multiple-use goes the only reason permits go unused for forests that have timber, or some other extractable, is that it isn't cost-effective to try and manage a business that way. Shoot, if you could figure out how to use small diameter timber you'd be a multi-millionaire for all the dog-hair the USFS has growing all over the State's ponderosa forests... There are places that have $$$ extractables (like the proposed Rosemont Mine outside of Tucson). But the reality is that they will destroy (for decades to centuries) the deer hunting on that side of the range with their open pit mine... Not to mention the benefits of the mine will be going to another country. What is more valuable to society: a few hundred local labor jobs for a couple (2-3) decades, or a 'worthless' hillside covered in blue oaks, grama grasses, and a couple ghost deer?? IMO the deer are == you can manage the deer for an infinite amount of time so they are worth an infinite amount of $$, the mine is finite and will go dry eventually. If you take the position that we have to do the greatest good for society, i.e. open everything up to oil/gas/coal/uranium exploration you will get what you need (for now), but what about the 2x American population in 30-50 years who want what you had? How do you explain to tomorrow's children that you had to destroy their opportunity to experience the hunt so that we could pay for cheap gas and oil today? Why is it that we are licensing these areas to exploration before we've passed a single law to increase the minimum MPG rating? Have we passed any new renewable energy plans lately? Made any effort as a federal goverment (other than Picken's Plan http://www.pickensplan.com/act/ ), to institute a systematic change? Its like saying, let's drink that last 30 pack of beer in our fridge before we go start AA tomorrow! It does strike me as unethical that they (BLM) are trying to do this without the comment of another part of their own agency (NPS). Tyson

great job! Now go back to class!

http://travel.nytimes.com/2008/11/07/trave...pes/07deer.html I notice how they didn't get one in the slide show....

massive!!

Zoinks!

I wish I could find a nice shed sometime... I think the shoes I've got are unlucky; gotta wear um out and buy a new pair before I start finding goodins again...

Poor Pooch! I've heard about the Redrock stuff; it is formulated for Western Diamondbacks (most common rattler in AZ) -- after the innoculations it supposedly lowers the number of anti-venom vials a dog will require. It gives the dog antibodies to neutralize the venom. I've heard the anti-venom runs 100s a vial and a bit dog can take 10+ vials. Protected? What do you mean by that? Basically like an immunization?

sounds like an amazing hunt! (lion + toad)* time w/ dad = frickin awesome!