AZBearhunter

Not up by payson, about 100 miles south.

I didn't do the exact math, however, it is undeniable that AZGFD is not conservative when it comes to issuing tags for several units, in question unit 33. Myself, I believe it is a little excessive on the 700 tag hunts. From my understanding, these rifle hunts get out of hand with 4 hunters on every hill, and guys hunting over each other...etc. Please share your opinion/stories, I want to see what others think. 2450 tags including youth hunts for 33. Manny.

You forgot the most important thing, MONEY $$$. Sure there are many surveys, math, biology involved....... but don't forget about the driving force: Money. Why did licenses and tag cost go up this year? More over this whole talk about an online hunter club that the G&F is trying to put together that will cost hunters $$ for special services. Tell me thats not about $$. We could do without a few tags in some of our units to improve buck to doe ratios, but if tags are taken away, then G&F loses money.

So for those of you who have the 34A bear tag, many will agree that if you listened to the hotline on Monday June 16th, the bear hotline said that the sow quota was met and the unit 34A would be closing at sun down, June 18th. Apparently today, the hotline is reporting a "correction" and that the unit will not be closing as the sow quota has not been met. My issue in the matter is: HOW IN THE WORLD COULD THEY GET THE MATH WRONG. I mean bears have to be reported within 48 hours, and then physically checked in shortly after. Unless a hunter was unable to clearly see the ball sack on his bear, then perhaps a hunter reported it incorrectly. From my understanding only 2 bears have been killed in 34a, 1 boar and 1 sow. The 1 boar that was killed happened a few weeks ago (in May) by one of my friends, and he knew it was a boar and reported it as a boar. So what went wrong? The biggest issue I have is that several guys I know took work off yesterday and today (tuesday June 17-18th) to get a last opportunity at being able to hunt. Although this all may sound like whining, stupid or silly for bringing up, to me this is very serious. Mistakes like this are not acceptable, just like a mistake in the draw or with someones tag, is not a joke either. If anyone has more information, please share, but with only 2 bears taken so far (to my knowledge), it sounds like they made the error in counting the first bear (which was a boar) as a sow. Plain and simple. Thankfully they caught it before having the unit actually closed today at sun down, however, guys still took work off and were rushing to try to fill there tags, which I don't think is right. UPDATE/INVESTIGATION/CONCLUSION: So I did some investigating. The error occurred when a hunter reported through his voice message that he had harvested a sow, but it was actually a boar (apparently the bears balls were microscopic). The G&F closes a unit based on the messages they receive, however, like in this instance if there is inaccurate information provided by a hunter, the unit does reopen. Once verifying that it was not a sow, and was a boar, they retracted the message on the hotline and reopened the unit. Therefore, 2 boars and 1 sow have been harvested in 34a so far (1 boar in may). For those of you who have a tag, don't play with fire, only one more sow and the unit really will close for good.

Doesnt work that way. You surrender your tag before the hunt. You cant give your tag back if you were unsuccessful in the hunt and get your points back, what would be the point of giving your tag back after the hunt is over, the tag is not good anymore.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ thats all I hear. How can the AZGFD make more money off outdoorsmen. Giving the tag back for your points is the stupidest thing I have ever heard! If you wont be able to hunt then don't put in. If there is an emergency, them I see this being expectable, however you have to be able to prove its an emergency (death, injury...etc). If anyone can return there tag each year and get there bonus points back, we would have hunters returning there tags with excuses such as: they lost there jobs, or because its a bad drought year, or because the unit is on fire, or because there hunting buddy is not going with them...etc. Though luck, these are all risk everyone has to take when putting in for the draw. There should be no exception now, this is the way it has been since our draw system began in 1990. When you put into the draw it should be final and thats it. Early access to draw results???????? Thats the funniest joke I've heard this year. The AZGFD has so many issues with the current draw system especially with meeting deadlines, so why not first fix the issues with the current system that is in place.

Blondes are my favorite, but I'm not raciest, I love bears of all colors. Some chocolate, cinnamon and red bears I've had throughout the years look super cool!! I think this blonde bear is the lightest blonde I have ever seen.

Dustin25, love the idea. Cut that tags by a 1/3 and raise tag prices by 33%. I can live with that. Hunters who really are serious and passionate about these hunts like we are, and care about the buck populations would likely agree to such a structure. Im sure though that many would oppose it because it would then fall under the category of being a rich mans sport. Great idea though.

Read what I wrote up above, it wasn't the G&F fault in this case. Hunter error.

So I did some investigating. The error occurred when a hunter reported through his voice message that he had harvested a sow, but it was actually a boar (apparently the bears balls were microscopic). The G&F closes a unit based on the messages they receive, however, like in this instance if there is inaccurate information provided by a hunter, the unit does reopen. Once verifying that it was not a sow, and was a boar, they retracted the message on the hotline and reopened the unit. Therefore, 2 boars and 1 sow have been harvested in 34a so far (1 boar in may). For those of you who have a tag, don't play with fire, only one more sow and the unit really will close for good.

Hermaphroditic bear!! Holy molly, I didn't know this was possible. The reality is that given that his has happened before in 35a/b as cohofishing pointed out, it would stand to reason that this was an error that G&F made. The 1 boar that was killed in May was definitely a boar, there was no debating that, his manhood was intact.

Doe hunts may not be the answer to the problem. Doe's = Buck manufactures. Theoretically if you eliminate does' you are eliminating the buck factories, which could hurt buck numbers even more. Strong doe populations is good in order to sustain reproduction and to replenish deer numbers each year. However, with the current over hunting of bucks in multiple units, buck numbers are never given a chance to repopulate to where the doe-buck ratio is more proportionate. Therefore, the reason that many years ago there was a doe hunt, was because the buck to doe ratios were more proportionate and buck numbers were doing good. As more and more ppl got into hunting through the years, the result of over hunting resulted in eliminating the doe hunt, in order to sustain buck populations. Each year, every mature doe that has been bred can have 1-2 fawns, which is sustaining. For those deer that have twins, this adds to the population which is good. However, if you start taking does out, now your going backwords. You are no longer sustaining the population and less bucks are born each year to help fill the 2450 tags given out each year in 33... Giving out doe tags would mean that buck tags would have to be dropped considerably.

I will try to get answers. Calling to find out answers is a good idea.

AZLance hit the nail on the head. Management has become a office job and not one that involves being out in the field actually talking to hunters and being out when these hunts are taking place. AZLance shows through facts that the amount of bucks harvested in 2013 in unit 33 was 828 give or take. However, I fear this number is a lot more. What adds to the staggering 828 WT bucks harvested is taking into consideration the amount of bucks that were WOUNDED (rifle/archery, and died) and never recovered, as well as all the archery harvested WT bucks. Therefore, in 2013 there was probably around 1,000 bucks that were eliminated due to hunting. Now add to the equation, the predation from Mountain lions on WT bucks eliminates (??) amount of bucks each year. We all know that 33 is a lion haven. How is this sustainable long-term??? Our Coues buck populations have to be our priority to ensure that our doe to buck ratio doesn't drop even more. I think we can all agree that deer numbers are lower then in past years, and these past few years of drought are not helping. As other hunters have pointed out, this issue of giving out to many tags is not isolated to unit 33. A prime example of poor management in 33 is the mule deer population. Prior to 2012 there was 2 mule deer hunts with 300 tags a piece (600 total mule deer tags). Last year, as well as this year, there is only 1 hunt with 300 tags. That is a reduction of 50% of the total 600 mule tags that were available in the past. So why were 300 tag taken away from one year to the next? Simply because the mule deer have been hunted to death, literally! If it happened with the mule deer population, can it not happen with the coues populations? Why wait until there is a problem, prevent it from ever happening. We need mandatory check points in each unit for deer to better gather data. We already are mandated to check in out mountain lions, bears and bighorn sheep in the name of gathering data, so why not with deer. Mandatory check in (by phone) for archery hunters was done away with?? Mandatory check in is important, because I have a feeling that there are guys out there that are taking two deer each year, one with their bow and one with a rifle. That is my $0.02

Good luck lucafu1. Lots of hard work awaits you. The success for fall bear hunts is "fair" and in some units "great" given that they close every year so quickly. In comparison, the success on summer hunts is "poor" at about 10-20% success, some years being more or less. The fall rifle hunts can be a blast when the bears are in the pears and become fairly responsive to a predator call. Bear hunting is not like deer hunting, for every 500 deer there may only be 1 bear. Seeing 100 deer in one day is no problem, seeing 1 or more bears each day can be a lot depending on the unit that you are hunting. On the other hand when your in the right location/unit/mountain range/canyon...etc and the food is right, seeing 30 bears in one weekend is very possible (which has happened to a friend up in northern AZ). Unit 33 does not have a fall bear hunt, but there is a new "Rifle Spring hunt" that gives 5 tags in the draw. I believe the rifle spring hunt closed quickly this year because someone killed a sow fairly quickly.

Well said! People are getting out of hand lately! I've become reluctant even posting trail camera pictures.

Congrats on a nice pear bear!

Great buck! Congrats

Incorrect. Not an ocelot. Ocelots have long tails. Google ocelot.

Huge boar in the making! Very cool pics

I know from talking to there field biologists, that camera theft is a huge issue for the study.

Inaccurate information. The Arizona Game and Fish department is not studying the Jaguar, the US Fish and Wildlife Service in Conjunction with the University of Arizona, College of Agriculture and Life Sciences (CALS) are conducting the Jaguar/Ocelot Survey/Study. For those who are unaware, there is a Jaguar in southern Arizona, he is alive and doing very well. Oneshot, reporting to the G&F is a bad idea...? Even if this was a real Jaguar photo, the AZGFD, the USFWS and EVERYONE else knows he's alive and has been wondering about. The University of Arizona is working under contract with the USFWS and is using over 200 trail cameras to monitor Jaguar/Ocelot activity. THEY KNOW HIS EVERY MOVE. Nothing new. The USFWS has actually set up a public Flickr account that has over 65 pictures of the Jaguar and Ocelot. So all those that are worried about the G&F finding out, good luck, cause they already know. The Flickr link is below. If anyone wants anymore facts about the Jaguar and the Study look at the links below. UA to Study Jaguar Presence in Southwest. College of Agriculture and Life Sciences. http://www.cals.arizona.edu/spotlight/ua-study-jaguar-presence-southwest https://www.flickr.com/photos/usfws_southwest/sets/72157632294203147/ P.S. Cool pictures regardless! Thanks for sharing.

On the money! You beat me to the punch, great breakdown, and undeniably a bobcat.

In that's last pic manny, were there 4 cats? Wow! I'm pretty sure there are 3. Those are the mule deer killers down in the flats.

Large cats are somewhat one of my specialties when it comes to capturing them on a trail camera. Each year I average about 2-3,000 lion pictures (of course many of pictures are of the same lions). More available upon request. I hope you'll enjoy. Manny C.