lancetkenyon

Had a great weekend of scouting for my 13 year old daughter's upcoming elk hunt. We hit the road at 3:30AM on Satuerday and headed to 7W. Got to one of my favorite spots about 6:00AM, right at sunup. We immediately started hearing bugles, so we prepped to head out and see some bulls. My wife, in all of her wisdom, decided to stay in the truck and nap. After 30 minute of listening to multiple bulls bugling back and forth, we found ourselves within sight of a couple of them. We counted 4 mature bulls slowly heading up the mountain. What happened next will remain in my memories for a long time, and I hope Taylor's too. For the next 4 hours, 4+ miles, and over 1000' of elevation change, we moved with a herd of 6 mature bulls to their bedding spot, all within 30 to 100 yards, with one or more visible to us the entire time. 4 in front, 1 paralleling us about 50 yards consistently to our right, and one trailing us at about 50 yards. They never seemed spooked, and never bolted. Bugling the entire time back and forth. One would start, and the other 5 would follow, almost in the same order. We got to learn who had what bugle in the 4 ahead of us. One had a really high bugle, and one had a deep growl. One would chuckle after each bugle. It was amazing. When they finally bedded, we backed out slowly and headed back to the truck. We got back after noon. Luckily, we had radios and let my wife know what was going on, or else she would have had my butt when we got back, because I told her we would be back in a "couple hours". We then went to lunch in Williams after dropping off the expensive stuff at my buddies cabin, and got back around 2:00PM in time for me to take a 2 hour nap before we headed back out for the evening. Saturday evening was fairly uneventful, seeing a few pronghorn, some deer, and right at sundown, I spotted a herd of elk about a mile across a huge flat. Stopped the truck and was glassing them and saw a spike bull with 11 cows and calves. I broke out the 15s and tripod and was watching them, and decided to glass the mountain behind them, at the perfect time. Right in one of the last sunny spots on the hillside, was a good bull standing there with the sun highlighting his antlers. Really tall, average width, 6x6 bull. Decent length. He was a mile+, so hard to see exactly how big. I told my daughter he was a shooter when her hunt opens. She agreed......at that time. Darkness fell, dinner was had, a movie was watched, and sleep hit me like a sledgehammer. This morning.....things would change this morning.....and make my guiding tasks for this fall a lot harder..... Up at 4:45AM, wife slept in again (which was good for me, because that meant I could stay out scouting until 11:00AM, and not have to head back early to clean up the cabin we get to use), and Taylor and I head out by 5:05. 5:20AM Spot a herd of elk in a meadow. Hard to see, but they all looked like cows. I broke out the binos just to verify, and low and behold, about 100 yards away, a really nice 6x6 bull is with them. This is the first mature bull we have seen with cows. We watched him for about 3 minutes and headed on. At the next big meadow, still too dark to see really well, I stopped and glassed it to check for elk. I spotted a cow and calf and was slowing glassing along the tree line when my daughter says, "Big bull, getting ready to cross the road". I look ahead of my truck, and at the limits of my headlights I see a "Big" bull. Behind him, are two more bulls. I shut off the truck and hurry to break out the 15s & tripod, as they are moving pretty fast across the meadow. Then, just shy of the opposite tree line, they stopped to feed, giving me time to break out the 15s. I got the 15s set up.....and watched in awe. The 3 bulls were as follows: #1 Coloring on this guy was really dark. More charcoal gray than cream and brown. Huge body. A mature 6x6, maybe 320"? He might be on his way down with how big he is. Or he is going to be a giant if he is young. #2 Your standard mature 6x6 bull. 300-320"ish? If you would have looked at them by themselves, nice bulls, great bulls, don't get me wrong. I would be happy to take either one of them. I am OK at judging elk. Not fantastic, but I am usually within 10-15" either way, from a 280" to 350"+. I have seen some big bulls in 7W. One was a verified, measured 404" bull that a buddy shot about 18 years ago on an archery hunt. I had photos of him previously, and had guessed him at 390"+. I have also seen 2 other bulls I would guess were 390"+. I never saw them taken, so who knows. #3 The bull that dreams are made of. He made the other two bulls look like raghorns. Easily 60+" wide. Fronts were good. 3rds were great. 4ths were probably 32"+, 5ths were 18"+. Main beams were looong. I bet he could scratch his tail with the tips. Had a small 6"+/- 6th on his left side. He ran with his head back with the weight. I would guess 370" conservatively, I am actually thinking better, but hate to say 380"+. I sure hope I get to have Taylor get a shot at him. I got a few grainy photos, and some video with my phone and SLR on 300mm zoom. It was still pretty dark, and he was into the trees b 6:09AM, 10 minutes before sunrise @ 6:19AM. After seeing this bull, my daughter might have become obsessed. We will be up a bunch looking for this bull again. Sorry the photos are not better. They were a LONG way out by the time I got the camera out. They had stopped at about 600 yards, then 800, and by the time they I got the camera out, they were 1K+. I have some video that shows them better and clearer.

Late bull, Nov. 27th-Dec. 3rd.

Once that light contour barrel starts to heat up, look for a change in POI. So how would you even know if your "break-in" was working if your barrel is moving from excessive heat and your groups open up accordingly?

I doubt they will be in the same place, but it gets the blood pumping, optimism higher, and gets me out of the hustle & bustle of the Valley. Time spent with the family is awesome too.

Ah. I remember my teenage years too. I chased a lot of tail back then, and I am sure I was close to getting shot by a few fathers.....

Last two weekends, I have put about 14 miles of boot leather down at altitudes from 5900 to 9500' AMSL. Does that count?

It is funny, those iPhone photos look like a watercolor painting!

Went back out on Saturday. No big story, just a few photos this time. Saw 12 mature bulls, a few other smaller bulls. about 50antelope with 7 different bucks. 11 turkey. Maybe 12-13 deer? And a quick coyote. About a 340" bull @ 347 yards. After looking at this bull for about 15 minutes until the only light we had was from the full moon, I am thinking 355-365". Not sure, but he was nice. I did not get any good photos of him due to the darkness. My cousin took these with his iPhone. The iPhone sure takes crappy photos.

No luck this weekend after about 5 hours of hiking. Saw some crows/vultures around the area the OP PMed me about, but it was 2 dead domestic sheep. What a bummer. I will try again this coming weekend. We did get into about 4 bulls bugling though. And saw a little 5 point about 30 yards we jumped up.

Way to fight off temptation on a possible legal light issue. If in doubt, don't send it out. Congrats on probably the best tasting elk you will ever harvest too.

I have a set of Cabela's Gore-Tex camo gear. I just got it last year, but it kept me dry in AK last year in some torrential downpours. Works great here in AZ too. And awesome as a wind stopper. Pretty quiet, I got the jacket that does not have a lot of pockets or flaps, as I hate catching a bowstring on anything.

They get a lot of different ridicule from the Vortex haters. Bump for a good price on a decent scope.

Awesome! I thing getting my kids animals is more exciting than getting to harvest my own.........or close anyway.

Winchester brass CCI 250 mag primer 64.2 gr. RL22 168 Berger HVLD .0040 Jump 2945fps from a 24" barrel About .8 MOA (Best I have seen my cousin's rifle ever shoot though) We are about out of time, with his mule deer hunt in less than a month, so we are done tinkering for now after a couple months of leisurely load development.

My .257 115 Berger HVLD @ 3400+ from the muzzle put my big muley down with a complete pass through at 150+/- yards. Probably still doing about 3050fps. I know, different bullet weight/caliber/animal, but penetration was PLENTY for an elk at close distance. I have seen Bergers from high velocity guns and close range just flat destroy animals. And they work phenomenally at long range too. I LOVE them once you get your load worked up. I hope to have my daughter use my .300RUM with the 215 Hybrids on a big bull this year. From 20 yards to 1000 yards, should work just fine. I also hope to have her try out my 6.5 SLR slinging 140 VLDs on mulies too. Again, from 20 to 800+, I will have no worries they will work if put in the right place.

I run an electronic power throw with a scale, but the .1 grain accuracy is not good enough for my finished loads. Great for throwing them fast and getting close, but every load (with the exception of high volume .223 for varmints), gets transferred over to my RCBS 5-0-5 beam scale and individually trickled and weighed. I can see a difference of a single kernel of extruded powder, and sometimes even cut a kernel in half to get it perfect. I have: (other various small tools not listed) PT&G (makes Hornady brand presses) single stage press Hornady Lock-N-Load electronic dispenser/scale RCBS 5-0-5 beam scale RCBS powder trickler Forster trimmer Lyman brass prep kit RCBS mechanical powder measure (use this for high volume .223) RCBS universal hand primer Digital caliper w. Hornady comparator kit Chrony Alpha Chronograph (gets me close) Shooter Ballistic program (on Android phone) Leica 1600B Rangefinder Obsessive/compulsive tendencies Patience Time Understanding wife

7W has really kicked off this week. Last weekend, only saw one bull with cows. And some big ones were bachelored up or alone. This weekend, different story. BIG bulls with huge harems, bugling like crazy, was hoping to film some throwdowns.

My cousin and 13 year old daughter have this tag too. Went up scouting again this weekend. Saw a total of 12 mature bulls, and a couple raghorns. Biggest 3 were around 340", 350", and a 360"+ bruiser pushing 22 cows. I got photos of the 340ish bull. Last light, so a little grainy.

So you are saying if conditions change, you need to recalculate......interesting. I think if you get them set up for a specific elevation and temperature you will be hunting in most of the time, they could be fantastic. Unfortunately, I hunt and shoot all over (from 1100' to 9500'), and almost year round (from sub 0° to 100°+), so they won't work for me.

General area? You can PM me if you want. I will be up scouting again this Saturday, and if I see any sign at all, I can give you a call.

Outrageous! Love that bull!!! Way to stick it out.

Is it unethical to clean you rifle after each shot? I will let your conscience be your guide.

There are definitely sleeper units out there depending on what game you are pursuing. Some are becoming more known. Others are not. Those that people have put in the boot leather and time to find good game in units that are NOT known for that type of game, want to KEEP them off the radar.

This is the whole point that I am trying to make. Since you can't really know for certain if it shoots better or not with a thorough break-in, I'd rather play it safe and do the break-in. Here is believer in the break in method. He has valid points to his argument. I am in the other camp. I see no benefits. Neither one of us has hard proof that one way is better than the other. Just our own observations and what suggestions we have been told by people far more schooled than we are in the subject. But even in the professional barrel and rifle maker camps, there is a difference in opinion. I am sure both of us could link a multitude of articles showing why the way we do it is the proper and best way. It is all personal preference. I do not think there is a right way to do it in this debate if you follow certain common sense procedures. Don't shoot until the barrel is too hot to touch. Don't shoot a barrel that is overly dirty (not just fouled). Know what chemicals you are using and use them correctly. Know HOW to properly and safely clean a rifle. Also, "clean" can be a relative term. Do you remove carbon only? Do you strip all copper? Do you break in at a public range? At a public range, I have seen a lot of ignorant people "breaking in" new rifles. If you don't know how to properly clean a rifle, you WILL do more harm than good. You can also do it very unsafely and put yourself or others at risk. Anyone who has been to Ben Avery (or other public ranges) more than a few times probably has some horror stories of ignorant people doing stupid things.