audsley

Lark, tell us how AZGFD helped outlaw trapping.

I'd recommend the 280 AI. I would avoid 7MM magnum simply because it's much more recoil, muzzle blast and powder than other calibers require to get the same velocity and energy. I have a Remington 7MM SAUM which is very close to the 280 AI but lacks its popularity. You'll have better luck finding cartridges and cases for 280 AI than the 7 SAUM. You can go up to 30 caliber if you want, but it's not necessary in Arizona. I also have a 6.5 x 284 which a lot of guys have used effectively on elk, but I feel better with the .284 bullet on elk and bears. If you're thinking of going the custom rifle route, I suggest looking at Cooper Excaliburs in synthetic stocks on Gunbroker.com. You can get one for about $2,000. Each Cooper has to shoot a half-inch MOA group before it leaves the factory. You'll receive a picture of the 3-shot group along with the powder and bullet that shot it out of your rifle.

Mbiewer, Welcome to the world of public lands access frustration. At least the ranch representative in this story was honest about motivations. Only a few of them are. Most will instead cite damage inflicted by hunters as justification despite Game & Fish's willingness to investigate vandalism reports and help find compensation. AGFD established a landowner/lessee program a quarter century ago to reward landowners and lessees who allowed access across their property to public lands. While I know it's done some good, I believe it's also been abused in some cases, and many landowners and grazing lessees aren't interested. Some are wealthy from other enterprises and don't need the money, labor or materials AGFD and sportsmen are willing to put into their ranching operation in exchange for keeping gates open. They'd rather keep their gates closed and control large amounts of public land. Everyone should remember that this controversy is about access across private land to reach public land. It is not about hunting on anyone's private land.

Offering corrections and additions to a generally very good thread. First, AGFD is not holding the big cards, as someone said earlier in an otherwise excellent post. The state legislature is holding the big cards. And that's where ranchers will run to if things don't go their way on this. Ranchers have far more influence in the legislature than hunters, and the legislature can make things worse for us in a number of ways. Calling for a showdown is risky business and should be a last resort only. Legal footing for wildlife and hunting exists almost exclusively in the state statute that created the game and fish commission back in the early 30s. (The state constitution does not mention wildlife.) The legislature could dissolve the commission tomorrow if it wanted to, and there'd be no higher authority to appeal it other than a ballot initiative. It's doubtful the legislature would ever dissolve the commission, but they have other means for punishing AGFD and sportsmen. Working against us is public ignorance about history, ranching, hunting and how things are playing out in Arizona nowadays. Most people aren't interested enough to gain a meaningful understanding of these subjects, and the news media and the people they quote aren't helping. (Just this morning the Az Daily Star ran a letter to the editor stating that nobody eats bighorn sheep; they merely cut off the heads and go home. I responded in the comments section with several bighorn sheep recipes I've been using since taking my ram last December. For what little good that does.) The best I can suggest is that Rthrbhunting and his colleagues continue demanding data to back up the Boquillas assertions, and that any lies, exaggerations and bad faith negotiating be exposed to public view.

I got one a month ago. I like it. Make sure you use the parallax adjustment or you won't get clear focusing at distance.

What's the choke? If it's a full choke, the prices suggested above are about right. But a more open choke would add value, especially in 20 gauge because that makes it great for beginngers.. An Ithaca 37 is also great for left-handed people because it ejects out the bottom.

If the antelope collars are anything like the sheep collars I'm familiar with, they wouldn't do a hunter any good unless Game & Fish gave you the numbers to punch for specific antelope.

It happened. I believe there are more releases coming. http://azstarnet.com/news/local/pronghorns-released-near-sonoita/article_266fe477-a688-55b5-9ad6-17d70364db75.html

You didn't say how old she was, but I'm guessing high school. Sounds like she takes her studies seriously. I'd encourage that. My daughter was that kind of student, and it ended up saving me about $12,000. Wait til exams are done and then go. In other words, B. As for wives getting over stuff, I'd say that's a maybe. Wives are famous for remembering things, sometimes 20 years later.

Here's the Arizona Daily Star's latest on the sheep reintroduction. I thought AGFD did a great job with the responses. http://azstarnet.com/news/local/game-and-fish-respond-to-questions-about-bighorn-lion-deaths/article_719f9da4-1f49-5122-81eb-08953e1e4269.html

Whoever said every transplant since the 1960s has failed doesn't have a clue what they're talking about. There are numerous examples of successful sheep transplants that have resulted in thriving herds today. The Superstitions, Peloncillos, Galiuros and Mazatzals are prime examples. The big difference here is were next to an urban population with an activist, AGFD-hating, liberal press that enjoys inciting the clueless mob to a frenzy, and an urban population that understands little about wildlife and is easily misled by a few rabblerousers. I salute Game & Fish for standing strong and continuing to do the right thing. Arizona sportsmen should be standing behind them and speaking up. I do happen to share an interest in fixing southern Arizona's lakes, but that's another thread whenever someone gets inspired to start it.

Tucson's SE regional range costs $8.00 a round (25 birds) but only $7.00 a round if you buy a card for 20 rounds.

Heat, You didn't say whether he'd be shooting trap or skeet. I'm assuming both at least initially. You can make one gun work for both, but not real well. If it has to be one gun, look for an SKB with 28 inch barrels and choke tubes. You might be able to get that done within your price range if you can put up with some dings and scratches. If LOP is a little long you can remove the recoil pad and have him wear a Past shield until he grows into the stock.

Plan to spend close to $1,000 for a good used gun. Even though I've been shooting shotguns for 50 years, I recently learned a few things after Tucson's new trap and skeet range opened and I've been in the company of some good shotgun men. The gun that serves you well for hunting quail and doves will not hold up well under the punishment it gets in competitive trap and skeet shooting. Recoil and the constant opening and closing of a breech gun will wear out parts and crack stocks on the average hunting gun long before you see the same kinds of problems with a modern shotgun that was made for range competition. If you buy an O/U Beretta, Browning, etc. that costs $1500 or more new you're getting stronger steel and better fitting of parts. You'll need that in a gun that shoots thousands of rounds in a single year. Of course, any problem that develops on an 870 or a Turkish/Spanish/Russian O/U selling for under $600 can be repaired by a gunsmith, but you'll be seeing the gunsmith sooner and more often with one of those. And it costs just as much to fix a cheap gun as an expensive one. Better to spend the money up front and keep your ownership costs down. If a new quality gun stretches your budget too much, go for a used one with a few scratches. That will save you hundreds of dollars.

The new trap and skeet range is a first class setup. Right now it's open Saturdays and Sundays only, 8 a.m. to 1 p.m. A round of 25 targets costs $8. You can save a little money by buying a bunch of rounds. Clay birds are provided, but you must bring your own shells. If we want to keep this range operating, we'll need to use it. Most of the staff is volunteer, but they do have operating costs (targets, etc.) If it doesn't support itself, the county will close it. If they get enough usage, they'll expand the number of hours and days it's open. What I'd really like to see is lights for night shooting. But in the meantime, it's a great place to stop over after you've sighted in your rifle for deer season or whatever. It's located directly across from the rifle/pistol range. I'm really enjoying the skeet range. If it's ever discovered that gambels quail aren't extinct after all, I'm expecting my success rate will greatly benefit from the skeet practice I'm getting. I was out there both Saturday and Sunday.

I shoot a 7mm RSAUM. I found 57.0 gr of H4350 pushing a 150-grain Sierra Game King does better than anything else I've tried. As for the Berger manual, it's well priced at $24.50 (MidwayUSA) but I heard a couple of knocks against it. Doesn't give the lengths of the test barrel that were used, and that can make a difference of a couple hundred FPS. Also doesn't identify primers.

There are already more than 100 sheep in the Galiuros.

Tucson's Arizona Daily Star just ran a story on thsi Friday morning. It appears the only opposition to putting the pipeline along the highway - where it belongs - is the refuge management. I feel there's a good chance they'll be overruled. http://azstarnet.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/plan-may-bypass-western-edge-of-wildlife-refuge/article_6282c377-37a4-58c7-9742-5ce553a08dd7.html

The reformers would like to take us where to where the Australians are with their gun laws. Australia's draconian laws also followed a school shooting, but their restrictions were easier to obtain due to Australia's lack of a strong hunting tradition and no constitutional provision or strong national organization to protect gun ownership. I don't like using Wikpedia because they sometimes make mistakes, but this is the clearest, most concise explanation I've found. I also believe it's accurate. I recall hearing about Model 12 Winchester pump guns going into the crusher after the 1996 law was passed. Current Australian firearm laws State laws govern the possession and use of firearms in Australia. These laws were largely aligned under the 1996 National Agreement on Firearms. Anyone wishing to possess or use a firearm must have a Firearms Licence and, with some exceptions, be over the age of 18. Owners must have secure storage for their firearms. Before someone can buy a firearm, he or she must obtain a Permit To Acquire. The first permit has a mandatory 28-day delay before it is first issued. In some states (e.g., Queensland, Victoria, and New South Wales), this is waived for second and subsequent firearms of the same class. For each firearm a "Genuine Reason" must be given, relating to pest control, hunting, target shooting, or collecting. Self-defense is not accepted as a reason for issuing a license, even though it may be legal under certain circumstances to use a legally held firearm for self-defense.[2] Each firearm in Australia must be registered to the owner by serial number. Some states allow an owner to store or borrow another person's registered firearm of the same category. [edit] Firearms categoriesFirearms in Australia are grouped into Categories determined by the National Firearm Agreement with different levels of control. The categories are: Category A: Rimfire rifles (not semi-automatic), shotguns (not pump-action or semi-automatic), air rifles, and paintball markers. A "Genuine Reason" must be provided for a Category A firearm. Category B: Centrefire rifles (not semi-automatic), muzzleloading firearms made after 1 January 1901. Apart from a "Genuine Reason", a "Genuine Need" must be demonstrated, including why a Category A firearm would not be suitable. Category C: Semi-automatic rimfire rifles holding 10 or fewer rounds and pump-action or semi-automatic shotguns holding 5 or fewer rounds. Category C firearms are strongly restricted: only primary producers, occupational shooters, collectors and some clay target shooters can own functional Category C firearms. Category D: Semi-automatic centrefire rifles, pump-action or semi-automatic shotguns holding more than 5 rounds. Functional Category D firearms are restricted to government agencies and a few occupational shooters. Collectors may own deactivated Category D firearms. Category H: Handguns including air pistols and deactivated handguns. (Albeit both SA and WA do not require deactivated handguns to be regarded as handguns after the deactivation process has taken place. This situation was the catalyst in QLD for the deactivation and diversion of thousands of handguns to the black-market – the loophole shut since 2001) This class is available to target shooters. To be eligible for a Category H firearm, a target shooter must serve a probationary period of six months using club handguns, and a minimum number of matches yearly to retain each category of handgun. These categories – A,B,C,D and H were those determined by the NFA. The others listed here are determined by the states that have implement them at their own discretion. Target shooters are limited to handguns of .38 or 9mm calibre or less and magazines may hold a maximum of 10 rounds. Participants in certain "approved" pistol competitions may acquire handguns up to .45", currently Single Action Shooting and Metallic Silhouette. IPSC shooting is approved for 9mm/.38/.357 handguns that meet the IPSC rules, but larger calibres are not approved for IPSC handgun shooting contests. Category H barrels must be at least 100mm (3.94") long for revolvers, and 120mm (4.72") for semi-automatic pistols unless the pistols are clearly ISSF target pistols: magazines are restricted to 10 rounds. Handguns held as part of a collection were exempted from these limits. Category R/E: Restricted weapons: machine guns, rocket launchers, assault rifles, flame-throwers, anti-tank guns, Howitzers, artillery, etc. can be owned by collectors in some states provided that these weapons have been rendered permanently inoperable. They are subject to the same storage and licensing requirements as fully functioning firearms. Certain Antique firearms can in some states be legally held without licences. In other states they are subject to the same requirements as modern firearms. All single-shot muzzleloading firearms manufactured before 1 January 1901 are considered antique firearms. Four states require licences for antique percussion revolvers and cartridge repeating firearms, but in Queensland and Victoria a person may possess such a firearm without a licence, so long as the firearm is registered (percussion revolvers require a license in Victoria). Australia has very tight restrictions on items which are far less controlled in comparable societies such as the UK. Air pistols, elsewhere unrestricted, are as difficult to get as centrefire and rimfire handguns, and low-powered airguns are as difficult as cartridge arms to license. Airsoft guns are banned in all states and non-firing replicas banned in most. Suppressors (or 'silencers') which are legal in the UK and New Zealand, are extremely restricted in Australia to a few government bodies.[3]

Meet the people who want to close as many roads as possible in the national forests, and they're smearing Arizona hunters in order to sway the public to their side. http://www.tucsonweekly.com/tucson/motor-madness/Content?oid=3643254

Whitetail deer were NOT excluded from the study. This is a really big deal. You can expect animal welfare, wilderness and environmental groups to begin citing it as support for policies that discourage access and hunting opportunities. As for personnel from the Az and California wildlife agencies being involved, I can assure you that both Vern Bleich and Jim Heffelfinger are stand-up guys for hunting. Heffelfinger once wrote an article refuting the notion that trophy hunting damages the gene pool, as evidenced by the continuous stream of new entries and new records continuing to be set, as well as the complexity of genetics. Here's my biggest criticism of this study: While the statistical analysis is consistent with their hypothesis, it does not establilsh a clear link between trophy hunting and declines in average B &C scores. It tries, often without success, to rule out other causes of this slight decline and then concludes that trophy hunting must be the driving factor since they can't pin it to anything else. They admit they are unable to quantify habitat quality including nutrition. And here's a question. How many hunting seasons can a really outstanding deer or elk produce B&C antlers, assuming similar nutrition quality each year? Could it be two or even three in some cases? If it's more than one, then isn't it possible (maybe even likely) that increased emphasis on trophy hunting (not to mention better equipment) has led to harvesting more animals in their first year of B&C eligibility? The researchers did not have age data, so they couldn't consider whether today's B&C entries are getting whacked at younger ages than in the past. I'd also like to see some of the older trophies measured to verify accuracy.

Lance, do you mean institutional changes, or just different people and decisions from our existing organizational bodies? And are you suggesting more involvement from elected officials?

Don't like Game & Fish? Maybe some of you would prefer a different philosophy for managing the state's wildlife. There's a segment of the public that would love to re-shape wildlife management in Arizona, and they're much larger and better funded than those of you who spend your time bitchin' about surveys and rules and cheering when the department is involved in a controversy. Here's another point of view. Like this one better? http://www.tucsonweekly.com/tucson/bad-habitat/Content?oid=3632279

John, I'm sending you an email.

No question my estimate is extremely conservative, but I doubt you will see 5 or 6 people per tag holder if each of the "helpers" now has to pay $60 apiece. But you're right to point out that some will. How many is extremely speculative.