Umpqua

I didn't draw in 2023, but my wife did draw in 2022 with only 13 points. She spent opening day in the ER with kidney stones. She finally killed a great looking ram on the 23rd day of the season. This thread really blew up...ha ha. One thing I will say, don't believe everything you read on this thread. I've been researching sheep draw tags in all of the western states since the early 1980s. My immediate family has drawn 10 sheep tags as a result, with 7 of those coming in the last 17 years. I can tell you that the draw system in Arizona is the best is the western US. It rewards those that faithfully apply each year and still everyone has a reasonable chance. My son drew Arizona with 4 points in 2008 and my wife drew with 13 points in 2022. As far as nonresidents applying in Arizona, their odds are worse than residents due to two factors. First, there is a nonresident cap, so once the cap is reached, no more nonresidents will draw that year. Second, no sheep tags are specifically allocated for nonresident only. Understanding the draw system is the first hurdle to drawing a tag, because as others have mentioned, if you apply in a way that no tags are available (like a top tier sheep unit in Arizona that requires max points), you've just removed yourself from the draw right out of the gate.

The worst hunting mistake I ever made was my decision to save a few bucks in my 20's and not buy a hunting license the very first year the bonus point system started. Now, at the young age of 59, I've finally caught up and with 33 points, and last year was solidly in the bonus pass for sheep. The premier desert sheep units are now on my radar. Here's my question. I'm interested in what is going on in 22S. There were two hunters in 22S last year and one killed a 167 6/8 ram. There is not a second ram listed in the harvest report, so it appears that hunter didn't kill. I know a bit about the ram that was taken and they harvested on day 5 and had trouble finding the class rams that unit has been known for. The other hunter must have hunted 10 days, since a total of 15 hunting days are shown on the harvest report. Do any of you now the story of the hunt where a ram wasn't taken? Did they have any good opportunities?

I heard some second hand info on the 22S hunter. Apparently he had his eye on a certain ram and wasn't able to get it done with him. It seems the unit really fell off last year.

I like to throw these scenarios out as often I get really helpful comments. As a nonresident with 21 elk points what would you do? Realize the following: * 23N or 23S early archery may never happen due to no nonresident bonus tag. * With the newer way nonresident bonus tags are allocated, a quality early rifle tag is still a long wait, probably 10+ years. * I am still a few years out for a 9 early archery tag. Here are my favorite options listed by preference (best to worst). * Unit 10 early archery (I will be in the bonus pass. Perfect moon phase.) * Unit 3A/3C early archery (I would definitely draw. Perfect moon phase.) * Unit 3B early muzzleloader (I would likely be in the bonus pass. Full moon.) * Unit 10 muzzleloader, possibly with a friend riding my points (I spent 17 days on it in 2017. Perfect moon phase.). * Unit 23 late rifle (Full moon or it would move up in my picks). * Unit 5B muzzleloader (Rut hunt. Concerned with the very early dates. Perfect moon phase.) * Unit 22S muzzleloader (possibility for a nice bull, mostly average bulls? Full moon.) * Unit 1 late (points to draw both my wife and I. Full moon.)

Done!

There are for sure some nice bulls off the BO. Here in western Oregon, Weyerhaeuser started charging access to hunt on certain properties. Some guys don't like it because they always got on for free before. I like it. Before if fire season was at all a threat you were locked out. Now with the fee, the gates are open unless fire season is truly a hazard. Also the fee has limited the number of hunters. Also since the land is actively managed with clearcuts and new feed that comes with those clearings and reforestation, the place supports a lot of elk. Public lands around us are now rarely harvested with all the environmentalist hoops the Forest Service has to jump through.

P.S. If I did a late hunt I would show up 10 days early so I could have some bulls located before the opener.

I would agree, but since it is the only rut firearm hunt I would definitely draw it made it on my list. About the only way I would do it is if I could carry someone on my points who knew the area VERY VERY well.

Definitely DIY but investing the time to do it well. On our last AZ elk tag I arrived 9 days early to learn the area a bit. I've been on some awesome guided hunts but I'm at the point in my life that I prefer the satisfaction of DIY and interacting with my wife on hunt decisions more than the opportunity at 20" or 30" more horn. There is an exception, if I draw the AZ Strip (I'm in the max point pool), I would almost certainly have a guide involved.

Hunting the rut is such a huge piece. Though I think I could possibly kill a bigger bull on two of those late tags, but is 20" of horn worth missing out on a rut hunt! Not too sure about that!

The minimal access fee to hunt the Boquillas compared to the quality of elk hunting there, has to be the best private land hunting value in the entire US.

Here are Eli Grimmett's thoughts (Pronghorn Guide Service) on the best units for 2020 and also prior years (look earlier in the blog). http://www.pronghornguideservice.com/blog

First let me publicly thank those on the forum who were so helpful when my wife pulled the trigger on her elk points. She had a spectacular hunt and though she didn't kill on her late muzzleloader tag, we found 39 bulls in a week of scouting and for almost the entire season we were on two of the biggest bulls we have ever hunted. If it weren't for a couple deer busting us in the last seconds of a stalk, my wife would have almost certainly dumped one of them. One of our most memorable hunts ever. After years of sitting on my deer points, I believe this is the year I want to hunt. I am pretty much guaranteed any tag other than 13A or 13B which I could wait for for yet another 15+ years as a nonresident. With the incredible moisture and lower tag numbers I'd like to hunt. I just need to pick the tag to go for. I don't think I would go wrong with either one. Which tag would you recommend, 12A West Late or 12B West Late, and why? I'm still up in the air on using a guide. The satisfaction of going DIY is pretty hard to pass up. Thanks!

That's a great suggestion. I've heard good things about the first hunt. Best timing for us usually to be in Arizona is around Christmas though.

Unfortunately the point game is a much different world for nonresidents. It's always a balancing act of what we'd like to draw and what we can draw. 14 points puts her in line for some of the hardest to draw late Coues tags.

She will go in with 14.

Your advice looks very solid compared to what my research is digging up, especially the part about age means mass and the potential improvement to Kaibab age class with the tag cuts. Time helps that situation. Another piece is two days ago we found that my oldest son (29 years old) has a draw number in the top 0.09% for California Bighorn sheep here in Oregon. Since the odds to draw are about 0.8% for the area he applied, he's in a pretty good spot, We won't know for sure until after the AZ application window has closed. That's a big chunk of September and October devoted to that if he were to draw. I am leaning slightly to burning my wife's AZ points for a late Coues tag for her. A few days to make up my mind.

That is awesome you drew in Montana! I started in the early 80s chasing sheep tags and it overflowed into other species. When preference systems went into effect, I was an early adopter. My biggest regret hunting was not buying my Arizona hunting license the very first year bonus points went into effect. I still can't believe that move I made. Live and learn.

Hunter, I sure hope you get a beautiful buck! This is gonna be a great time!

That would be. I have a big tag in August this year.

Ha ha...maybe I'll give you my autograph. Is your goat in your profile pic from a draw tag? Those sure aren't easy to come by. I think sifting through a pile of Kaibab bucks would be a very fulfilling hunt.

Good clarification Flatlander! Thank you.

Yep, I'm from Oregon. Just some thoughts. Today, I spent a couple hours drafting a letter to my home state of Oregon about a proposed change, that went up on their website yesterday. They are making a proposal that will basically nullify 22 points that I've built for a top 3 mule deer tag that I should draw in the next few years. The proposal came out two weeks after the application deadline and indicates it may go into effect next year. Moves like these that make me super leery on tags where I can draw a great tag now, but may still have a 15 year wait for the best tag. The 13B rifle tag is in that category. There is a large backlog of max point applicants and quite a few with one less than max that just need to travel out to Arizona to get their hunter's safety point. Earlier this year AZGFD was proposing a Super Point idea where one point could be bought for one specie. I have 30 for antelope, 30 for sheep (after this year's draw), max for deer, and 21 for elk. Which tag would I buy the Super Point for if that happened? Probably sheep. I would start falling behind on the other species as other applicants bought Super points for those species. Proposals like that are devastating when you have nearly 2 to 3 decades and license fees invested in a tag. It was just a few years ago the AZ nonresident tag allocation changed where only 1/2 of the tags could go in the Bonus Pass. That moved a 13B tag from something in the foreseeable future to double that time. That's why I'm seriously thinking a Kaibab rut deer hunt (12A or 12B) this year could be a pile of fun!

That is awesome!

I've talked to several outfitters including Duwane. Some strongly recommend 12A West, some strongly recommend 12B West, and one says it is a toss-up. Some say nearly all of the bucks that are hunted in 12B West migrate in off the Kaibab, others say nearly all the bucks come off the Paunsagunt if it snows.