CouesWhitetail

Here is another photo that might help you get a view of the size of a coues buck. I took this photo shortly after the buck was killed. The guy holding it is an average sized man maybe 5'10". Looks like the bucks back would hit about 3/4 of the way up his thigh (if the buck wasn't slumping). That is probably around 31-32 inches high. And this was an exceptionally large bodied buck.

More D, On average a Coues deer has 6 inch long ears with an ear tip to ear tip spread of 14 inches. The body is about 49 inches long from nose to start of tail and the tail is another 7.5-8.5 inches long. Shoulder height ranges from about 28-32 inches. Although I haven't measured it, I think the height from bottom of the chest to top of back would be about 12-14 inches. Anyone know any different? I think the ear measurement is the easiest and most consistent to use in gauging size of a buck. I suggest you use the photos of live coues deer on this website and try and figure out the range of body measurements by using a 6 inch ear as a reference size. Amanda

Jason, You are absolutely right on both accounts. They own the Cerreta Candy company and make great candy. Here is a link to their business website : Cerreta Candy I have seen their pictures of all kinds of other wildlife and they are wonderful. I am really pleased that they used their skills on Coues Deer too! Amanda

Jason, Thanks for the tip, I hadn't heard of the video. Western Whitetail 1 and 2 didn't sell very well on this site, probably just because everyone already had them. If the one you are talking about is fairly new, then I will probably carry it. I will call them and ask. thanks! Amanda

Good luck Crazy! Let us know how it goes. Amanda

Just like Travis said, there is plenty of gas in Globe. The cheapest is near Walmart on the West end of town or by Pizza Hut on the East end of globe. Prices have increased in the last week or two and lines have gotten longer, but if you go early morning or late at night there are no lines to speak of. Good luck on your hunt! Amanda

I agree Josh! I was very pleased when Joe contacted me and said he was willing to let me post them. It took a fair amount of work to get them scanned and tweaked so they look good, but I am happy they are up. What pics are your favorites? If you count the pictures as 1, 2 on the first row, then 3 and 4 on second row, and 5 and 6 on third row, with 7 and 8 on the fourth row of each page then here are the locations of my favorites. The doe broadside but facing back..pic 4 on page 1 The doe reaching for leaves in the sunlight - pic 7 page 1 The buck in velvet with the flowers - pic 7 page 2 ( blow it up to see the flower colors better) The broadside buck near oak tree - pic 7 page 4 What do you guys think? Amanda I am testing posting one of the photos into this email below:

I agree with Allen, I think most any antler will work. Coues sheds are great though because they are smaller and easier to haul around. Also, they don't have to be sheds. If you happen to have a buck around that you saved the rack from but you don't necessarily want to keep for mounting, you can cut those antlers off and use them. The rack doesn't have to be big either. Even something that has two points plus eyeguards can work. It just has to sound good. I bet you could buy some antlers from Josh Epperson if you wanted. His number is in the Shed Hunting section. Amanda

Thanks Allen. I am kinda holding off until I get the logos from Bill Quimby. I should have those by the end of the month. I wanted to start with those and then maybe branch out to using Duwane's or other deer. Tony M. emailed me a photo of Duwane's buck, but I think the angle of it isn't the best, so I may come down and reshoot it this fall.

There are lots of coues deer throughout most of the Chiricahua mtns which are in unit 29. If you wanted to bow hunt that unit, it probably is a great one for it. There are several water holes and some large oak trees you could put a stand in. I hunted both the east and west sides of the chiricahuas and finally killed a deer on the east side by going in around the town of Paradise. During the rifle hunt there are way too many people is the easily accessible country, but during the archery season, I would think you could go anywhere without bumping into a lot of hunters. The East side can be a bit hard to find roads because of lots of private landholdings. But just get a USFS map and take some trips out there and you will figure it out. On the west side I saw a lot of deer around Rucker Campground. There are some hike-in only areas around there that actually get loaded with hunters in the rifle season, but might be pleasant during the archery season. Amanda

Congrats on your success! Which camera system did you use?

Which issue are you referring to? And yes, I imagine it is the same Josh Epperson. How many Coues fanatics could there be named Josh Epperson?

Rembrant, Thanks again for the offer of artwork. I will let you know when I figure out particulars. For now, I think I will go with the designs that Bill Quimby has done for me. But I do anticipate having different editions of hats, shirts, etc, so there will probably be a need for your help. Thanks! Amanda

Welcome to the forum! I don't think I have ever seen a WT with a white rump the way a MD has it. Of course WT can flare the white hairs under their tail so it's looks like a large white patch, but I assume you are talking about something that truly looked like a MD rump patch. I have seen WT with very dark tails and MD with antlers that I could have sworn were WTs. So there is a great variety of tail colors and antler configs in both species and they don't necessarily indicate that one is a cross of the two species. AGFD has done some research on hybrids and you can read more about it by checking out an article by Jim Heffelfinger that is posted on this site. Click below to view the article. Hybrid article Generally a true hybrid is not going to survive because they get mixed up survival skills. Coues deer and Mule deer have different predator avoidance/escape strategies and a hybrid mixes up the two and gets nowhere. Last year during javelina season I saw a good-size WT buck running with a herd of MD. And their were some medium sized MD in the herd with them. I am sure the WT was rutting and would have been harassing the MD does, so it amazed me the MD bucks let him stay with them. Amanda

Allen, Thanks. You can ask him if you want, or I can. I suppose if you are gonna talk to him in the next few days go ahead and ask him. I will be up camping on Mt Lemmon doing some owl surveys. I can get in touch with him when I get back if you don't. We will have to look at the photo and see if it would be good for an embroidery design or maybe have someone do an outline drawing of the rack on a skull. Something that would make it a better design for embroidery. Amanda

KGAINES, Whitetail does can grow antlers. It is very rare, probably much less than 1 % of all does, and it is caused by a hormonal imbalance. Usually a female with antlers won't have enough elevated hormones to cause the velvet to shed and so she keeps growing velvet antlers. But they can have hard antler also. I don't know for sure of a Coues deer doe with antlers, but there is no reason it couldn't happen. The fact that some female animals get male characteristics is part of the reason why game regulations are listed as "antlered deer" and not "bucks" or as "bearded turkey" not "male turkey or toms". That way a hunter can not get a citation for shooting an antlered doe or a bearded hen. I once saw a guy bring in a bearded hen turkey that had eggs developing inside her. So even though these animals may have some unusual hormones, they can sometimes reproduce and function as normal females. I also saw a photo on the 'net of what appears to be an hard antlered doe with twins. Very interesting photo! Search the net you might find the link. Amanda

Prohunt, Go ahead and check on using Charles' buck. I think that would be cool. I have a friend who just openend an embroidery shop, so she might be able to make some hats for us if we get a design. Thanks for the ideas. I will keep you posted on what designs I get. There was a delay in getting some mailed to me, so it won't be until the end of Aug or so that I get some stuff made. Amanda

Great! Pretty exciting to get those mtn lion photos. How much time was there between when the mtn lions were photographed and the deer? Were they using the water at different times of day or all at night? Anyone ever used any of the trail cams that are digital?

Hi All, Just curious as to which units you guys put in for. I went for Dec. hunts in 23,24a, and 32, but draw odds are low. So I also put in for my old standby Nov unit 32 hunt. Amanda

So what cam did you end up getting Josh? Amanda

Before the Aspen fire started, I spent a lot of time up hiking around Mt Lemmon in the Bullock fire area doing some surveys for the USFS. The places where I saw the most WT deer and freshest sign was in the heaviest burn areas. So the WT are still using some very open hillsides. I think they are enjoying all the green-up. I haven't seen any monster bucks there this year, and only found 1 small shed, but these burns are generally good for deer. I found one dead WT, but it was old enough that it was hard to tell what killed it. Definately died after the Bullock fire, probably predator. I believe the USFS will be doing some re-seeding to prevent extreme erosion during the monsoons. I don't know exactly which grasses they are seeding, but it will most likely come up quick and be good deer food while the brush and native plants are resprouting. Fire is an absolutely awesome deer and elk food producer. Amanda

I forgot to mention that the buck was killed in the southern part of unit 34A in AZ. And he first saw and hunted the buck in the August bow season. Then again in December for 12 days and then finally got him in January 2001. Here is a quote from the article "As soon as I saw him, I started shaking." Bet you all can relate to that! Amanda

There is an excellent article by Tony Mandile in the Aug 2003 Rocky Mountain Game and Fish magazine about this world record buck. Originally it grossed 144 6/8 and netted 132 6/8 as a typical. But after the panel scored it in May 2003, it received a final score of 130 1/8. It has a 6 inch drop tine that was a deduction but still beats the previous P&Y world record by 10 inches. It's a really great story. Sergio Orozco hunted this particular buck for about 14 days. Amanda

Keith, where did you see that on the AGFD website? I have been trying to find it on their site and was unsuccessful. Amanda

Travis, I have been working on it for quite awhile now and getting pretty close to having some designs ready for some stickers. Bill Quimby has been doing the design work and he has come up with some nice ones. I was thinking of kinda small stickers that people could put in the back window of their pickup or other vehicle. There is a print shop here in Globe that says they can do them. Probably in the next two weeks I will try and get some done. But maybe people want some larger ones with slogans for a bumper sticker. For t-shirts, I was thinking of maybe making some with that photo of that nice buck and doe that Bob Campbell took. That is the photo that is on the top of the main page. What do you think about that on a t-shirt? If anyone is artistically inclined and wants to volunteer to create some designs or slogans, let me know! I am open to suggestions on what kinds of stuff people would like. Hats? mugs? tshirts? stickers? Amanda