CouesWhitetail

AZ4life - I had a couple similar experiences with Coues deer sniffing dead animals, but they were all deer that were in the group with them before I shot them. One time I was in a thick white oak grove and a herd of bucks had come down the open hillsides to the grove. I was about 30-40 yards away from the bucks as they walked single file through an opening in front of me. When I fired, the noise was deafening, and the buck dropped instantly. But the buck that had already passed through the opening came back and sniffed his buddy despite a very loud gunshot having just gone off. CHD- I think it's more likely that that deer was spooked by something and just ran back in fear. Then when she calmed down and saw that the other deer walking calmly toward her she settled down. But who knows. I do think they form attachments though. They are social animals. Your story reminds me of a time when I was mule deer hunting and I glassed up a frantic whitetail that had busted up out of the brush on to the top of a flat and was running around in terror. I couldn't figure what was going on. The deer kept was kind of going in circles and running back toward where she had flushed from as if concerned for something there. Then I heard this awful screaming sound and what I think happened was that this doe and her fawn had been jumped by a lion (which I never saw) and that the doe escaped but not the fawn. It was a terrible noise and it was pretty loud even though I was far away from it. Amanda

I agree with Tommy. Coues will respond to rattling and calls. And in addition, Coues deer will also come into distress calls of other species that are used to lure in predators (rabbits, javelina, etc). I know several predator hunters who tell me that both does and bucks will come into their calls. Amanda

Ernesto - Chris has already made a generous donation to CW.com. But thanks for suggesting it anyway Being a big fan of unit 32 myself, I can feel with Rembrant the frustration of knowing a tag didn't get used. But we all end up not using tags sometimes. I believe AZGFD is going to start a program where you can apply for a "non-hunt" bonus point. That way if you know you aren't gonna be able to hunt, you can pay for a tag anyway and not be in the general draw. That will solve some of the unused tags. But I think most people who don't use their tags do it at the last minute for family, work, or health reasons. Amanda

Hi All, Just thought I would let you know that I have created a selection of Christmas cards and notecards from the great photos by the Cerretas. You can see the cards by clicking on this link: Coues Deer Cards Check out the cards and let me know what you think. Send someone who loves deer a notecard or christmas card and help support CouesWhitetail.com at the same time! Amanda

Great story Chris. Thanks for sharing it! Did you ever see that buck again? Know how long he lived with that injury? Amanda

Good luck Griz!! Let us know how it goes! Amanda

There is a link to AZOD in my links section if you care to check it out. They have some good info about hunting/fishing and other outdoor activities in AZ. I don't know who the tag holder is, but I will ask around. Amanda

You can buy all the topos for the entire state of Arizona on CD-rom for about $90. The program I recommend is National Geographics TOPO! I think local stores like Popular Outdoor outfitters sell them or you can buy them from Amazon.com by clicking through this link: http://www.coueswhitetail.com/maps%20and%2...%20software.htm For this program to be useful, you do of course have to be comfortable with using a computer program. But this allows you greater flexibility. You can print whatever size map you want. Don't have to print a whole topo if you are only gonna hunt 10 sq miles. You can also add waypoints to plot out water, deer, crossings, etc. and print that on your map along with the UTM's. The maps are seamless, so you don't have to worry about where the topo map corners are. If you change your mind and decide to hunt the other side of a mountain range, you can just print out the maps for it, you don't have to go buy anything else. You can even print the maps on tear resitant waterproof paper so you can keep them for years if you hunt the same spot a lot. Amanda

Glad to hear it Mike. I am having problems with the printer. I had a batch of logo decals printed, but they didn't come our right. Their software interpreted the image wrong for some reason. Hopefully the problem will be ironed out. Amanda

Coues deer are a subspecies of Whitetail. Subspecies are defined by geographical isolation not by an inability to interbreed. All whitetail subspecies can breed with each other. They have very similar reproductive behaviors and although I don't know this for sure, I think their scents are probably very similar. Heck, Coues Deer can even breed with Mule Deer. So I think that other whitetail scents should work. Deer are very curious and will check things out. I don't know anyone that uses scents in Coues deer hunting regularly, but I think a good way to find out a Coues deer's reaction to the scents is to put up a trail camera around some scent. See if they are attracted to it or act scared. Maybe some of you have already done this.... what did you find out? I think the only way the deer would be really scared of the scents is if there was human scent associated with it, so make sure you use some scent elimator before you put the stuff out. Amanda

Hi guys, I have been thinking about adding a new photogallery section for pictures that you get that aren't of deer, but happen during a deer scouting or hunting trip. This may be a picture of some other species, like elk or javelina or snakes or coatis or whatever. Or it may be picture of a nice sunrise or sunset or rainstorm or whatever. Maybe some unusual pics from a trail camera. I think it would be interesting especially if everyone gives a little info about how they got the photo. Anyone interested? Amanda

Sounds like a great buck josh!!! Tom, no I can't guarrantee someone wouldn't download them. I ask people to respect copyrights, but I know some do not. There are supposed to be some ways to make downloading impossible, but I haven't learned how yet. I think it takes a special program. So if you are worried about downloaders, don't share the photos yet. As far as editing posts, you should be able to click on the edit button if you are looking at the that post. The edit button is on the upper right side of the message. email me if you still have troubles. Amanda

What I have found is that it is much easier to predict deer activity based on temperature and wind than it is on moon phase. I have seen lots of deer activity in the early mornings following a full moon. But I have also had times when I saw very little activity following a full moon. So I am not completely convinced that just having a full moon means anything. I know lots of hunters will disagree with me. But do you really think deer need a full moon to see at night? Ever watched a deer feeding at sunset and seen them active right up until you couldn't see anymore? Do you think they just laid down because it was dark? Ever walked to your hunting area in the dark and heard deer snort and run? I have and it wasn't a full moon, yet they were up feeding in the dark anyway. I think that if it's hot out, or if there is a lot of hunting pressure, or if there has been a lot of wind during the day, the deer are more likely to feed at night. Deer have to balance the amount of energy they take in with the amount of energy it takes to get that food and avoid predators (human and otherwise). When it's too hot or too cold or too windy, they would use up more energy than they would get by feeding (or are too susceptible to predators as in windy conditions), so they rest until conditions are better. If you search the internet for info on deer activity and the moon you will find all kinds of theories. Some hunting groups have plotted out when they have killed deer most often and found deer activity is highest during the first quarter and during the full moon. Other people say that they full moon is the worst for hunting conditions. And still other people say that the position of the moon is very important. That if the moon is directly above or directly below you, that deer activity will be highest. I am curious as to what experiences you guys have to share regarding this. Amanda

I agree with Cervidnut. In my experience, 3.5 year old bucks can go 90 plus inches. In fact that deer on the upper left corner of my web site came back as a 3.5 year old and he is about 90-95 inches. From the check stations I have worked, I have seen Coues deer increase mass, spread and number of antler points past 7.5 years old. I also think that regression of antlers is very dependent on nutrition and variable between bucks. I know that with other cervids, like elk, lots of hunters/biologist say that they are prime around 6-8 years old and bulls over 10 are worth getting rid of. But if you look at data from San Carlos, that doesn't hold water. The world's largest elk gross scored over 500 and was harvested when I worked at San Carlos back in the late 90's. That bull was 13.5 years old. And many of the monster elk that are harvested there are 10-12 years old. So I have trouble with people who generalize about when elk or deer regress in antler size. It is highly dependent on habitat conditions. I just received some cool photos from Dan King from a buck that he collected sheds from for about 10 years. I will post it when I get a chance and you can see that that buck put on some excellent growth after he was 7 years old. I know Dan has some other collections of sheds from other bucks that can show how they grew over time. Perhaps there are others like Josh and Jim Reynolds that have some other sets that would illustrate antler growth over time. Amanda

Hi All, I was out glassing for deer last weekend for the juniors hunt in unit 23 (roosevelt lake area). It was extremely hot!!! The weather forecasters said it was about 15 degrees above normal, and normal around there is still pretty darn warm this time of year. Anyway, what we found was that they deer were most active from first light to about 8-8:30 am. But they were still only barely moving around. They were staying in the shade even in the early hours and only moving 50-150 yards all morning. Very small movements, in the shady areas. So it was very difficult for anyone to find them. In places where in January I might glass up 20 deer, I would see 3. In the evening it was even worse. Deer seemed to not be moving around much at all in the evening. Coues deer frequently water during the middle of the day, generally between 11-1 pm. I would expect them to do that in this hot weather. So if you sit a tank, make sure you watch it at least until early afternoon. If you have already found some deer during scouting, they will probably be in the same areas. Just concentrate on glassing the parts of their home area that are the coolest and shadiest. Also, in late morning concentrate on glassing the bedding areas that are well shaded. It is always harder to glass bedded deer, but they do get up and move around throughout the day to find a more comfortable spot. If you are glassing diligently, you may see them make these small movements. The other way you might get some deer if you are unsuccessful glassing is to slowly walk the bedding areas and you might jump one up and get a shot. Or have a buddy walk the bedding area while you are across the canyon looking for the deer getting up. Good luck to everyone! Amanda

KP, You might be able to get into Black Diamond Peak area by going in from the Middlemarch Pass side. It's been a few years since I have been in there, but I thought you could get through. Amanda

Good one Bret!

CHD, You make some good points. I don't want to be adding animosity to the mix, just want to promote the little Coues deer. Another reason not to make the bumper sticker is that many people may read it as a "friends don't let friends hunt deer" anti-hunting sticker. Wouldn't want to see that happen! Amanda

I would also vote for english. And I would consider selling them here on this site if they look good and are good quality. Email me when you get them done and I will give you an address to send a sample to. Amanda

I watched several deer the other day fight over access to eat some dirt. It was an area inside a cattle trap. The ground was bare and I believe it is a place where they used to put salt blocks out. So even thought the blocks weren't there anymore, the ground was loaded with minerals. When I first saw the deer, there were two nice bucks in velvet. But they ran off and then two does ran in. It was like they were anxiously waiting for access to the salt lick but the bucks had kept them away. They would chase each other around to decide who got access first. Then a yearling doe came out and they chased her off. But she kept coming back and eventually one of the adult does left and so the yearling was allowed access. What was really unusual was that the does let me walk with 10 yards of them even though I was in full view and they obviously saw me. I snapped a few photos, which I have inserted into this message. I guess their drive for salt overshadowed their fear of people. It was a fun encounter. I wish I had gotten photos of the bucks! Anyone else had similar encounters? All these deer were pretty skinny, as you can see in the photos. Amanda

Travis, You are right, it is a bit snobby. I might not make them because it's kinda antagonistic, but I think it's hysterical. I suppose Mule deer hunters won't think it's funny. Surely they can take a joke though. I think it's just friendly competition. What's nice about it is you have to be a deer hunter to get it. So 90% of the people who see it won't have a clue. But your huntin' buddies will! Amanda

Hey, what do you guys think about my idea for a bumper sticker? It cracks me up! I have been working on some logos and should have them ready soon. I don't know if I will do bumper stickers, but I was messing around with logos and thought this was a good one. Amanda

Keith, To get a picture to show up in the discussion forum, it has to be posted online somewhere. Then you simply click on the IMG button and type in the URL (location of the photo). The IMG button is located just above the box where you type in your messages. So if you start a message or a reply to one, then look above the text box and you will see several buttons. The one labled IMG is used to insert images into your message. You have to make sure you type in the location of the photo right, otherwise it will look like this: If you type in the image address right, then it will show up, like: There are other buttons that let you insert regular URLs or email addresses. Then those will be hotlinked so people can just click on them and be taken right to the page. Amanda

Glad there is some interest. It might be a good way for people to see which game cams give pictures good enough for them to use. Feel free to start sending me pics if you have anything you want posted in this kind of section. I will probably make separate galleries for trail cameras vs photos gotten the "normal" way. Amanda

Just a reminder that this discussion forum software only lists the most recent message on the right hand side of the board. But if you move over to the left side and click on the title of each Forum, then it will list all topics in that section over the last 30 days. If you want to look at older topics, you can use the drop down menu boxes in the bottom of the blue box to select the number of days to go back. Also, the blue button on the left hand side will be dark blue when there is a new message in that forum. It will be light blue if there have been no messages posted since your last login. This function only works if you are logged in under your registered name. Amanda