CouesWhitetail

Rembrant asked me to post this hunt story and photo for him. Jim Atcheson and I like to hunt one of the Northern New Mexico units. We have had 4 permits in 5 years. Out of the 4 permits, I have killed 3 mature bucks; 2 - 4 points and a 3 x 5. The two biggest bucks were taken with a muzzleloader. I love that place. The reason I am successful is because of Jim. He reads mule deer better than anyone I have ever known. He hunts extremely hard, but couldn't give a darn if he kills a deer at all. He enjoys the hunt more than the kill. Consequently he benevolently sets me up as the shooter in a drive/sit situation. Sometimes he lets me do the push, but mostly we end up arguing and I end up "losing" and having to sit on a high point massaging my trigger. This deer was pushed into me, on purpose, by Jim. The buck ran by me at 40 yards. After shooting, the deer didn't seem to break stride, and I lost sight of him quickly. I gave a quick check of his tracks (about 30 yds.) for blood and there was none. I was convinced I had missed again (I had already missed 2 other mature bucks this hunt!). I told Jim that I was gonna reload my gun and shoot myself. He said there was no need for that, because his gun was already loaded. Now, there's a true friend. Before we hooked back up, he swung through a pocket of trees below my stand (he never quits), then I was to walk down the bucks tracks to help determine where he went. This is part of Jim's never ending pursuit of patterning mule deer bucks. Which, as a side note, is the most amazing thing about hunting the sands of Northern New Mexico; deer can be tracked all day, and discovering where these bucks go, and the ground they cover, is truly fascinating. Anyway, after following the bucks tracks for about 60 yards, there he was - dead!!! He never bled a drop. Still learning about hunting with a muzzleloader. Good thing I didn't shoot myself! Didn't get him weighed, but we figured him to be about 180+# dressed. He has a 26" outside spread, scores 177 gross and 172" net (unofficial). His teeth are worn nearly to the gum line. He may be an older regressing buck, yet his rack is symmetrical and quite beautiful. I'm a blessed man. Things - everything - seems to be so busy these days. I really cherish being able to get away with a good friend for a while where there is nothing - absolutely nothing - more important than killing a deer.

Congratulations on your bucks! What unit were you in? Those look a lot like two bucks I saw in 31 a week or so ago. Amanda

Happy Birthday Brian! Hope you are out glassing somewhere! Amanda

You are right, you never know exactly what you will see. We also saw a troop of coatis feeding in pinon pine at close range, but I had left the camera back at my vehicle! So no pics of them, although it would have been great! There were at least 10 of them all scrambling around the tops of the pinons eating the nuts. Amanda

Here are the pics:

Sounds like a cool boot. Have you tried walking quietly in Coues country with it yet? Does it really work? Amanda

Congratulations Alex on your fine buck!! And thanks Danny for sharing the story and taking your kids hunting! And nice CouesWhitetail.com hats the kids are wearing!! Amanda

Westy, You can't go wrong with either north or southern part of 24A. I have hunted both and have a hard time choosing which 1/2 to go to. Look for reliable water and a good mix of brushy and open grassy areas and you will find WT. Here is a link to where it's been discussed before: 24a discussion Amanda

It's a Nikon Coolpix 4500. 4 mp camera. It has an excellent macro lens along with regular lens. It's a relatively old version of the Coolpix line. I like it because it takes decent pics and isn't really large. Amanda

If you decide to hunt NM and want a scouting service, remember that Tommy Maldonado is a supporter of this site and provides quality services. Here is a link to his business website: Gila Wilderness Hunting Amanda

Great buck Danny!! After your first post I thought, man isn't that hold over gonna miss the buck? Guess you are lucky he held tight. Congratulations, he looks great! And you got back in time to take Alex out, that's awesome. Hope you guys score again. Amanda

Nice pics Red! Sorry no buck, but at least you were in gorgeous country. Amanda

Great buck! I saw a two point almost as massive as that one in 32 several years ago. He was in a killable spot until a doe decided to go up the mtn and he followed her. I can tell you I watched in awe as I got small glimpses of him in the brush as they went up into the thick stuff. Email the pics with hunter names and such and I will post it in the regular photogallery. And can't wait to see your 120 buck! Amanda

Great job Tommy!! I just got back from a few days in NM and it sure is beautiful country!! Congrats to your boy! Amanda

Wow! Nice job calling in those bucks! Amanda

Anyone named Cochran who visits this site? I found a topo map out in 24a while scouting and it has the name cochran written on it. If it's your map, email me with info on where you lost it (so I know it's yours) and I will mail it back to you. I have called all the Cochran's in the phonebook in Globe and noone seems to know who's map it is. Amanda

Redbeard, I use something called SalSoda. It makes the cartilage practically melt off. You add it to the boiling/simmering water. I got the cleaning method from Taxidermy.net forums. Check it out and you can get expert advice from professional taxidermists there. I use a dental scraper to get stuff in nasal cavities that is loose but not out yet after boiling. I do more simmering in SalSoda now and less picking and scraping than I used to. But it still takes a long time to get it done. The other method is to just put the skull in a bucket of water and leave it for several months. You occassionally empty some of the water out and add clean water, but don't remove it all so you keep the bacteria to clean the skull. That method works very well. No picking or scraping or cracking of teeth. But it takes forever, so you have to be patient. I have a javelina I am still soaking that was killed back in Feb. It's clean now, but I have added a degreaser to get the grease off the bone. This is definitely an easy method, but not good if you are in a hurry. Amanda

Great plate! I wish it was mine . Amanda

Good luck younghunter! And remember to take some photos! Amanda

Desertsheep, Great job! Email me the photo with some more details on the hunt and your name and I can post it in the muzzleloader section of the photogallery. We only have a handful of guys who have been successful with a muzzleloader. Amanda

Wow, great buck. Got any pics with a side view of him so we can see all his tines better? Can't wait to get the video!! Congratulations! Amanda

Boone and Crockett recognizes WT from Arizona, southwestern NM, and northwestern Mexico as Coues. Specifically in Mexico it is the states of Sonora and Chihuahua. In NM, the Coues WT boundary is defined as "Arizona border to the west, the NM boarder to the south, the Rio Grande River to the East and Interstate HWY 40 to the North." As far as the Carmen WT, there is much debate about them. Apparently they are bigger than Coues and smaller than texas WT. Here is a section from Jim Heffelfinger's (biologist with AGFD) book Deer of the Southwest which discusses it more. Coues whitetails in southwestern New Mexico are found primarily in the Animas, San Luis, and Peloncillo mountains extending up to the Mogollon Mountains and Black Range. These whitetails are geographically separated from, and do not interbreed with, the population found in the Sacramento Mountains in south central New Mexico and in scattered, isolated pockets in the eastern half of New Mexico and west Texas (Findley et al. 1975; J. Nelson, personnel communication, NM Department of Game and Fish, 2000; TPWD Files). All white-tailed deer east of the Rio Grande in New Mexico are more similar to those in South Texas (O. v. texanus), which are measurably larger in body and antler size (Bailey 1931, Raught 1967). Although the smaller Coues form and the Texas form of whitetail are separated in the U.S., they blend together across a series of populations south of the border (Findley et al. 1975). Whitetails gradually becomes larger as one moves north and east out of Chihuahua through west Texas, Coahuila, Nuevo Leon and then into South Texas (Krausman et al. 1978). Whitetails in northern Coahuila, Mexico and the Chisos Mountains of west Texas have been described as a different subspecies, the Carmen Mountains white-tailed deer (O. v. carminis). These deer are isolated somewhat from both the Coues and the Texas whitetail at the extreme northern portion of their range in west Texas. Krausmen et al. (1978) supported the recognition of Carmen Mountain whitetails as a distinct subspecies based on skull and body measurements of Coues, Texas, and Carmen Mountain whitetails. However, there is no geographical separation of Carmen Mountain whitetails in the central and southern part of their range. In fact, Coues whitetails from western Chihuahua gradually become larger in size throughout their continuous distribution in Coahuila and into South Texas. Farther south in Mexico, the Coues whitetail intergrades imperceptibly into populations of whitetails that have been described as a number of different subspecies. No analysis has ever been conducted on how these whitetails differ from Coues whitetails, or from each other. These deer probably represent a gradient of characteristics throughout the range of this species. Hope that helps! Amanda

Well, just goes to show that maybe you should only visit this forum No, I don't think it's wrong to keep shooting at your deer. You don't want to lose it and a wounded, unrecovered deer is a tragedy. So shoot until you are sure he is dead. Amanda

Welcome to the website. And thanks for checking the archives before posting questions. I imagine someone here can help you out. So ask away... Amanda

Congratulations!! Funny how things work out so nicely sometimes. Great photos and wonderful buck. Amanda