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I got lucky and drew a random 12aw late tag this year. I honestly expected to see more bucks per day, i'd say we averaged seeing 10 bucks a day, but roughly half of those we saw were pretty good bucks in the 160-165 range, with a handful of 170-175 bucks over the course of 5 1/2 days. They seemed very pockety to me, one draw would have a bunch of deer with some bucks kicking around, the next draw with the exact habitat would have nothing. The evenings were very slow for us, at least the first few days since it was so dang hot. Most of the mature bucks seemed to be hanging in the pines right before it opened up into the oaks. My dad found this inline buck on day 3 and i figured he was on the bubble; good deer but i wanted to hold out for a few more days. Day 4 we couldn't turn him up and considered him gone to find new does, but we hung around to see if new bucks would move in. I was able to put glass on him the morning of day 5 in the same canyon and knew he was a shooter. After several days of looking at what i'd consider good bucks, he stood out a lot. I knew he didn't have great mass or width but was long and had character so i couldn't resist.

I don’t post often, and usually side with the “we don’t need any more regulation” side of the house. That said, there are some problems with game cameras. If you have ever been on a hunt in a trophy unit, where there are multiple guide services representing clients, it really sucks. There are 15+ cameras on every water source, the guides then send in large groups of people to check all of the cameras early each morning, then they radio the team to head where the big bucks were last seen, then they post glassers on every hilltop for a couple of miles from that mornings pictures. It makes it very difficult for a do it yourself hunter. I have no idea how to fix that, and don’t like regulation, but seeing that firsthand was the first time I thought that something needed to be done.

My wife just got a surrendered tag for unit 21 December white tail. This is going to be fun

Not everyone wants to be a guide. Personally, I just want equal fair chase opportunity and good times in the outdoors with my family. My problem is when you raise your kids with certain hunting ethics, wait 20 years to get a tag in a coveted unit, only for your kids to witness how the guides operate on their hunts. I had always thought cameras had a place and have several myself; it’s cool to see what’s out there! I never considered the extremes though, never even thought about every water source in a unit covered with game cameras by a guide. Now, I’m thinking about future extremes and can envision a time where a well financed investor sees how much money a trophy animal can bring, what stops them from having cameras blanketing an entire unit? Seems far fetched now, but the way guides hunt and run their business is something I would have never considered 30 or 40 years ago.

I did a mean hike today. I’m in camp drinking beer now.

Guides also have clients from out of State too. Hunting just isn't what it used to be 30 years ago when very few people had a binocular more than 10X, a variable scope more than 4x12 and routinely shot past 300-400 yards. Just wasn't done. We are in the age where daddy wants junior to shoot a record book buck so his snot nosed little 10 year old brat with a 3K rifle sporting an equally pricey scope at 700 yards can post it on FB. Tags are hard to come by now and there are way more hunters afield so some people want the advantage that a guide can offer for a successful hunt. Lets face it, most of them put in way more hours and miles a year than the average person can, and have comb an area for years. A few of them can give the whole industry a bad vibe, not much different than Taxi's. The few I have met were just like the rest of us. They just have a business to run, and a reputation to uphold.

Let’s start with the armies of guides and helpers that flood an area for one client, sitting on every ridge top, parked at the end of every road, and all the camps for said clients/guides/helpers. I’d have to say, and this is my own opinion, if a grown azz man cant go out and find himself an animal or even field dress his own animal after harvesting one, maybe he should find something else to do for posting about on Instagram or Facebook.

Agreed. Thing is one has to wonder if game and fish is looking at this as a fair chase issue or a untapped cash cow issue. If it's a money issue they will simply charge a fee per cam which in turn the guides will happily raise their prices to cover, and also therefore also make hunting even harder for the common man. If it's truly a fair chase issue in their mind they will make a "season" for cams. And ya know what? It's pretty hard IMO to say cams aren't a fair chase issue. I.E. cams everywhere on every trophy elk and mule deer hunt. Patterning the big bull or buck, Armies of guys on ridges and blocking roads etc. I'm sorry but It's real hard to argue fair chase under those circumstances. Personally, I'd rather see a season for cams, or them go away completely before seeing a trail cam fee. A fee for cams will only give guides more advantage and regular shmoes even less in an already uneven playing field.

Sorry if I offended your profession. Do you think the majority of the people running hundreds of cams are guides or non guides? Insta posts of hundreds of cams are not helping. How many non guides are running this many cams? I think we can agree guides are the worst offenders.

Ban guides=problem solved

But you said a midwest farmer is privileged. Why would that be? He worked for it and owens it. Why would a guide be privileged? He worked and bought his cams. No matter what, money talks and bull $hit walks and that pretty much pertains to hunting equipment. You can't buy hunting skills, I think?

Honestly that's a very fair question. Yes seasons overlap, but the worse offending hunts are gonna be the early elk, kaibab and strip hunts. But like I said permits per cam WILL NOT change the situation, they will only put $$$ in the game and fish bank. Now its time to expect AZGFD to put their money where their mouth is. Is it a $ issue or fair chase???

Anyone can go take a test and be a guide. Why is everyone so against guides? You can go buy 100 cams just like they do and put them up all over.

^^^^ Best post on this thread. Sums up the problem perfectly. That being said, a trailcam ban is unenforceable.

I have the 2400abs. It’s been perfect so far

When will he show up with them, March?

Is there such thing as premium donut holes?

Is that a camp trailer? Nicer than my house

Pic of the camp in the wilderness

call Noah 1-928-978-3870 has a nice shop at his house in star valley.

It’s impossible to enforce . If they do ban cams I’ll just have a family member that didn’t draw the unit put up cams and check them . As much as Azgfd wants to have jurisdiction over the forest they don’t have the ability to tell Joe wildlife watcher he can’t have a camera on The forest .

Thank you! I think the MuleyCrazy guide in Kanab who runs 400 cameras on the strip can afford it. The Mossback bison guide with 80+ cameras over salt can afford it. I don't think the $300 guide license even plays into their decision making. Is the problem the guy with a couple cameras or the guy with hundreds on every water source in a unit? From a fair chase perspective...

June 30th to July 1st closed..

He was too far to get decent pics through 15s. He was nice, but maybe we can find a big monster

Better just hunt then. Plus I found out there’s a little restaurant and bar here.