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I killed one back in 2007 with my bow. I knew of a tank that the birds would go to for the day. This greater landed across the tank at 48 yards. I believe I was using 100 grain thunder heads at the time.

Thanks everyone for the support! Matt and I just talked about his brother's tag and he'll be donating it to Heroes Rising Outdoors / Hunts for Heroes. BTW, we'll be shifting our name over to Heroes Rising Outdoors as we begin to expand our outreach beyond just hunting to the veteran community here in Arizona. Same program getting wounded veterans out hunting via donated tags. And we always welcome anyone who wants to give back in a volunteer capacity on our hunts! Just contact me: (480)760-3868 ... Good hunting this fall! --- Tom

I disagree. They should leave this right where it is so we can see the type of crap we are going to be up against more and more. These citiots think they can buy a little land up north and use whatever means they can to get what they want. Things like livestock, which are a way of life for some are mere nuisances to people like this. They also have no clue what it means and the grave consequences there can be to bear false witness against your neighbor.

Contact Tom Wagner with Arizona Elk Society's Heroes Rising Outdoors (Hunts for Heroes). https://www.facebook.com/HeroesRisingOutdoors/?__tn__=%2Cd%2CP-R&eid=ARAsf9oRV8Sygrzp8doTZEK54ErBURW_n2YRpLEdDzyjxSpGKBCLYfBCATSSX7rYnYkhKm1HpYI6AACS

10 is a tough age to start on a primo tag. Hate to say it. Taylor had a 12AE tag when she was 13, and even then, it was tough. We saw plenty of deer, and some real toads even. But getting in a good position, with a good rest, and cooperation from the bucks was very difficult. Had some opportunities, but nothing we could actually call a legitimate realistic chance. Thought we had it in the bag a few times, but one little thing would mess it up. The buck played cat and mouse, behind a tree, would not stop, turned the wrong way, doe in front or behind, never stopped walking, stopped facing away, etc. After 9 grueling days, she was spent. No buck in the truck, but lots of lessons learned. It was not the distance of the shots, but the conditions. Get her out NOW, and start practicing in all positions, off a stump, off a bag, prone, sitting, kneeling, tripod, bipod, pra rice setting up quickly, practice turning turrets, practice follow up shots, etc. Shoot a comfortable rifle. Work up a great load. And get her shooting farther than you will actually let her take a shot on real game. We practiced out to 1000 routinely. But shooting at a stationary target is only half the battle. Getting a buck to stop in a good position at a reasonable distance and getting in a stable position quickly is the other half. Then again, you might get super lucky and glass up a bedded road at 200 yards where he doesn't even see you. Play games in the field. We played a lot of "hot lava", where the ground is off limits. Rocks, logs, etc. Also helps with the noise of walking. Stop to look at sign and teach her. Look at the squirrels. Looks at the birds. Find some sheds. Take a nap on a ridge. Bring tons of junk food and snacks. Let them nap in the truck. Teach them about nature and geology and the game animals. Be patient. Most of all, let THEM choose what to shoot. I learned this the hard way. Put MY expectations on Taylor. We could have shot 100 different bucks, but I, ME, wanted a big boy. Talked he or out of 20 bucks that were 3.5 year old 4x4s or better. Talk about frustrating to both myself, my ego, my patience, and most of all, to Taylor. The following year, Taylor killed a great first buck. And I was not real thrilled with her choice at first to take him. Again, visions of grandeur. But she was thrilled, and the buck ended up being bigger than I thought. 171". This year, she is down with the quest for a biggun'. But I will let her decide when to pull the trigger without a comment.

Highly recommend Tom and his organization if anyone else find themselves in this position. They are doing some incredible work. With any luck, I'll be able to help give back through them, too.

It wouldn't surprise me. Sycamore is a rugged area. I killed my lion there with Randy Epperson. We rode in quite a ways on horseback, spent the night in a USFS line shack and hunted the next day. Turned into a somewhat amusing and successful morning. When the dogs had the cat in the canyon, all we could do was sit on a rock ledge at the top and listen.

You are correct!!! I’m eating my words. I’ve shot hundreds of them in several different states and provinces and from what I can see AZ is a loophole if you will to not require non toxic shot. They don’t fall under federal regs for non toxic shot, but do for baiting, magazine capacity etc. Most states and provinces have state laws I guess on the non toxic deal. Weird. You could rip them up with 3” #4 lead!!!

This is a fairly factual rendering: The Last Grizzly A couple of good books to read: Man & Wildlife in Arizona by Goode P. Davis Jr. The Grizzly in the Southwest by David E. Brown

Whatever you buy, Get them from Discount and buy the road hazard. I have 127k on my set of 37" BFG MT KM2s I bought in 2007 on my F250 Super Duty diesel.....of course, DTC has paid to replace about 16 of them for me.

Agree with you NIck, this thread should stay. I am proud of my CWT brethren who through due dilligence sniffed out the truth concerning the OP's agenda. Kudos to you all. Controlled grazing, done properly enhances habitat IMO. The Bar X operators appear to be good people. Their application for grazing will be approved or disapproved base on the merit of the application. The OP is trying to circumvent science with emotion. Commenting of the grazing application would be appropriate.

More sunscreen...bigger hat

Anyone can spend 15 minutes searching the internet or talking to people involved and see what the Bar X has done for unit 23, the wildlife, and those who recreate in it. The owners have worked hand in hand with the AZGFD as well as the Mule Deer Foundation. Just last year the owner of the Bar X was awarded AZGFD's "Wildlife Habitat Steward of the year". The Bar X has become an Adopt a ranch, allowing pubic access for those to continue to recreate on the ranch. Bar X has brought in new waters for wildlife as well as many fencing projects to improve lands and protect riparian areas. We as people who take advantage of the opportunities our state provides, are lucky to have ranches such as the Bar X in this great state. The Bar X is a true steward of the land and a example of how ranching should be done today. As our state continues to grow, we are going to see more of this California ideology shoved down our throats. While the link below is several years old, you can see the dedication and some of the projects the ranch has taken on in years past. Thanks to all whom have voiced opposition against the Rim Job Neighbors. http://www.gccga.com/bar-x-ranch.html

This was the raffle not the auction.

If these issues are legit, why are you and your parents taking this on rather than trying to bring the resources of a legitimate wildlife advocacy group like the Arizona Deer Association or the Arizona Elk Society to bare against the Forest Service?

Great Another f'n lawyer with a Cause and you wonder why people are skeptical. you didnt look to hard then

Not current but may be cool to see. Here is my '16 Coues as he progressed through July. And on opening day.

Thanks for the info guys. I'll be sure to report back on how my hunt goes.

Good info - thanks

Things are looking good in my unit. I’m sure he will finish off well.

I'm guessing that there are long-term water rights obligations laid-out contractually. Likely can't adjust and shift those obligations in a whimsical manner from year to year. Also likely that overall their would be MUCH more money to make in the 'water' business as opposed to license sales for a single body of water. At the end of the day, ALL Arizona reservoirs are here for water management first. Recreational fishing (even "premier fishing") is always going to be secondary. As a fisherman, I might not like it, but it is the way it is.... S.

In Aldo Leupold's book "A Sand County Almanac" I believe it states that the last grizzly in AZ was killed by a "set gun" a rifle tied in a tree with a trip wire on a trail, on the Escudilla.

Great topic, hopefully someone can chime in with some info